- Joined
- Jun 2, 2003
- Messages
- 23,591
y_p_w, I'm sure that extensive list of reference posts on BITOG will keep you sufficiently entertained.
Well, PAO's by themselves are, from what I've read, rather inert by themselves and need some type of carrier oil. In the past they used small amounts of mineral oil but the better brands are using esters now. The esters, in theory, have an affinity for moisture and the PAO's help them w/ that, I believe. I know I am getting some things skewed and am leaving out others but the gist of this is correct. I'll try and find the info.quote:
Originally posted by moribundman:
Someone will have to explain that to me. I especially want to know who "they" are and why it's good that they strengthen each others weaknesses.quote:
It has some PAO in it whuch is good since they enhance each others performance and strengthen their weaknesses.
Anyway, I'm out, because this swapping-one-5W-40-for-another-5W-40 game is just plain silly and a total waste. But to each his own!
quote:
Originally posted by dagmando:
Another sucker for advertising and lots of numbers thrown at them, too bad....
I think you're getting there. The problem with PAO is that additives aren't terribly soluble in it, it shrinks seals, and it has poor detergent properties. Mixing in a little bit of ester helps with all three of these things. And pretty much any PAO-based oil motor oil in the past 20 years was blended with esters, except for Mobil's alkylated napthalene in place of esters. I believe it was quickly learned that PAO alone sucked big time.quote:
Originally posted by V8Blitz:
Well, PAO's by themselves are, from what I've read, rather inert by themselves and need some type of carrier oil. In the past they used small amounts of mineral oil but the better brands are using esters now. The esters, in theory, have an affinity for moisture and the PAO's help them w/ that, I believe. I know I am getting some things skewed and am leaving out others but the gist of this is correct. I'll try and find the info.quote:
Originally posted by moribundman:
Someone will have to explain that to me. I especially want to know who "they" are and why it's good that they strengthen each others weaknesses.quote:
It has some PAO in it whuch is good since they enhance each others performance and strengthen their weaknesses.
Anyway, I'm out, because this swapping-one-5W-40-for-another-5W-40 game is just plain silly and a total waste. But to each his own!
What was so "non-sensical and garbled"? Because you had never heard of it? Maybe it could have been worded better but when I said "strengthen their weakness", I think it was fairly obvious that what I meant was the weak points were beefed-up on each front, eg: made stronger. No offense takenquote:
Originally posted by moribundman:
Thanks for the lesson, y_p_w. What you just said has never been said on this site before, I've never read it before, and it's all news to me.
My issue was with the garbled, non-sensical form in which the statement was presented, but I guess I didn't make that clear enough. I guess I should have been blunt.
PS: Not all esters are created equal, but whether or not all types of esters invariably swell seals, I'll leave that for y_p_w to find out. I'm sure he'll tell us.
Thanks for the clarification and the finer detailsquote:
Originally posted by y_p_w:
PAO tends to harden/shrink seals. Esters tend to soften/swell seals. PAO is a poor solvent, while esters are an excellent solvent. However - I'm thinking that ester-only may not be a good thing because there could be excessive seal swell and the ability of esters to bond to surfaces may cause competition with detergents or antiwear additives that also do the same. There has to be a balance.quote:
Originally posted by moribundman:
Someone will have to explain that to me. I especially want to know who "they" are and why it's good that they strengthen each others weaknesses.quote:
It has some PAO in it whuch is good since they enhance each others performance and strengthen their weaknesses.
Anyway, I'm out, because this swapping-one-5W-40-for-another-5W-40 game is just plain silly and a total waste. But to each his own!
By blending the PAO with esters, one brings order to the Force.
But really - Mobil seems to have ditched esters (in some Mobil 1 formulas) in favor of their alkylated napthalene base oils. They claim better seal compatibility than esters.
You would not want "to strengthen weaknesses." You would want to diminsh them, neutralize them. You want to say that PAO and esters work ideally in a synergistic manner. My comment had nothing to do with the PAO/ester properties, as it is COMMON KNOWLEDGE around here. My issue was with your syntax and choice of words, which I found lacking clarity. Read again what you wrote and tell me that's proper:quote:
What was so "non-sensical and garbled"? Because you had never heard of it? Maybe it could have been worded better but when I said "strengthen their weakness", I think it was fairly obvious that what I meant was the weak points were beefed-up on each front, eg: made stronger. No offense taken [Wink] I'll try to link something to explain, as the link system (and the posting in general here) sucks.
quote:
It has some PAO in it whuch is good since they enhance each others performance and strengthen their weaknesses.
Moribundman, you are right. I definitely worded my statement in an unclear manner. I apologize. My inability to express myself clearly in a written manner is a weakness that I need to strengthen...............quote:
Originally posted by moribundman:
You would not want "to strengthen weaknesses." You would want to diminsh them, neutralize them. You want to say that PAO and esters work ideally in a synergistic manner. My comment had nothing to do with the PAO/ester properties, as it is COMMON KNOWLEDGE around here. My issue was with your syntax and choice of words, which I found lacking clarity. Read again what you wrote and tell me that's proper:quote:
What was so "non-sensical and garbled"? Because you had never heard of it? Maybe it could have been worded better but when I said "strengthen their weakness", I think it was fairly obvious that what I meant was the weak points were beefed-up on each front, eg: made stronger. No offense taken [Wink] I'll try to link something to explain, as the link system (and the posting in general here) sucks.
quote:
It has some PAO in it which is good since they enhance each others performance and strengthen their weaknesses.
Why do you think you car wants or needs 14.89 cSt of viscocity? Most modern cars are happier with around 10 cSt.quote:
Originally posted by V8Blitz:
-60 degree pour point, [email protected] and @104-92.35. Flash point-383. VI-169. I think this is the oil for me.
Red Line uses 100% polyol esters as their base fluid.quote:
Originally posted by TallPaul:
Another option is Redline Oil. They say you can drop one SAE grade (you could run a 10w30) if you want to and get the same protection. Redline is ester based (best guess seems about 50%) and you might still be able to get the Advance Auto closeout price of $5.98 a quart if your AA has any left.
http://www.redlineoil.com/why_redline.aspquote:
Originally posted by y_p_w:
Red Line uses 100% polyol esters as their base fluid.
I'm not convinced that 100% ester is a great idea, but if it works OK.........quote:
Red Line Oil’s team of chemists and blenders formulate fully-synthetic oils and chemically-advanced additives using only the world’s finest base stocks. This makes Red Line Oil the premium product on the shelf. It’s not designed to be the cheapest—it’s built to be the best. Rather than cutting costs by blending into polyalphaolefin base stock for its motor oil, Red Line Oil only uses superior poly ester-based products—resulting in lubricants that are extremely stable at high temperatures while providing superior film strength at lower viscosities where more power can be produced.
If you're old enough to post you have to learn to take the heat.quote:
Hey, cut the kid some slack ...he's only 23!
Oh, about 200 hits of "X" a week..................................................................JK!quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick:
Hey, cut the kid some slack ...he's only 23!
BTW, how many drugs do you have to sell to buy a $50k, Audi S4 at your age?
TS
No prob, bud!quote:
Originally posted by moribundman:
If you're old enough to post you have to learn to take the heat.quote:
Hey, cut the kid some slack ...he's only 23!
Anyway, V8Blitz, if I was giving you a hard time, I'm sorry. I'm just a sarcastic old nitpicker with a chip on my shoulder!
PS: TooSlick scares me. He knows way too much about people.