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y_p_w, I'm sure that extensive list of reference posts on BITOG will keep you sufficiently entertained.
Sratch that MOTUL E-Tech 0W-40 for summer. This is it! The one oil for it all!!
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Well, PAO's by themselves are, from what I've read, rather inert by themselves and need some type of carrier oil. In the past they used small amounts of mineral oil but the better brands are using esters now. The esters, in theory, have an affinity for moisture and the PAO's help them w/ that, I believe. I know I am getting some things skewed and am leaving out others but the gist of this is correct. I'll try and find the info.quote:
Originally posted by moribundman:
Someone will have to explain that to me. I especially want to know who "they" are and why it's good that they strengthen each others weaknesses.
Anyway, I'm out, because this swapping-one-5W-40-for-another-5W-40 game is just plain silly and a total waste. But to each his own!
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V8blitz, whatever you do, you do not want to "strenghten their weaknesses." But again, thanks for the lesson.
I think you're getting there. The problem with PAO is that additives aren't terribly soluble in it, it shrinks seals, and it has poor detergent properties. Mixing in a little bit of ester helps with all three of these things. And pretty much any PAO-based oil motor oil in the past 20 years was blended with esters, except for Mobil's alkylated napthalene in place of esters. I believe it was quickly learned that PAO alone sucked big time.quote:
Originally posted by V8Blitz:
Well, PAO's by themselves are, from what I've read, rather inert by themselves and need some type of carrier oil. In the past they used small amounts of mineral oil but the better brands are using esters now. The esters, in theory, have an affinity for moisture and the PAO's help them w/ that, I believe. I know I am getting some things skewed and am leaving out others but the gist of this is correct. I'll try and find the info.quote:
Originally posted by moribundman:
Someone will have to explain that to me. I especially want to know who "they" are and why it's good that they strengthen each others weaknesses.
Anyway, I'm out, because this swapping-one-5W-40-for-another-5W-40 game is just plain silly and a total waste. But to each his own!
Mobil 1 used to be labelled "100% synthetic base oil exclusive of additive carrier oil". The additive package was "carried" in a base of mineral oil (much like asprin would be mixed with starch) before being added to the final product. I think with their volume, Mobil may have switched to an synthetic carrier oil.
What was so "non-sensical and garbled"? Because you had never heard of it? Maybe it could have been worded better but when I said "strengthen their weakness", I think it was fairly obvious that what I meant was the weak points were beefed-up on each front, eg: made stronger. No offense takenquote:
Originally posted by moribundman:
Thanks for the lesson, y_p_w. What you just said has never been said on this site before, I've never read it before, and it's all news to me.
My issue was with the garbled, non-sensical form in which the statement was presented, but I guess I didn't make that clear enough. I guess I should have been blunt.
PS: Not all esters are created equal, but whether or not all types of esters invariably swell seals, I'll leave that for y_p_w to find out. I'm sure he'll tell us.
[ May 25, 2005, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: V8Blitz ]
Thanks for the clarification and the finer detailsquote:
Originally posted by y_p_w:
PAO tends to harden/shrink seals. Esters tend to soften/swell seals. PAO is a poor solvent, while esters are an excellent solvent. However - I'm thinking that ester-only may not be a good thing because there could be excessive seal swell and the ability of esters to bond to surfaces may cause competition with detergents or antiwear additives that also do the same. There has to be a balance.quote:
Originally posted by moribundman:
Someone will have to explain that to me. I especially want to know who "they" are and why it's good that they strengthen each others weaknesses.
Anyway, I'm out, because this swapping-one-5W-40-for-another-5W-40 game is just plain silly and a total waste. But to each his own!
By blending the PAO with esters, one brings order to the Force.
But really - Mobil seems to have ditched esters (in some Mobil 1 formulas) in favor of their alkylated napthalene base oils. They claim better seal compatibility than esters.
If I were a mod, I'd lock this thread already and throw away the key. V8 has everyone worked up as the new kid with the coolest toy. He's brought all kinds of posters out of the woodwork and stimulated discussion of some cool products. He also knows enough shop stuff that he takes an interest in tweaking his car and has come to the right place, here. Instead of everyone trying to pick his oil for him, as he originally asked, a better way would be for him and us to relax and let him report on HIS experiences. Again, relax could also mean for him to relax and run his current oil out to the point that he has a full understanding of it's performance and swap it later rather than sooner. That would be best for everyone because we would all know what's up with this situation.
Drain T&S after a week? No wonder everyone is rattled.
[ May 25, 2005, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: Audi Junkie ]
[ May 25, 2005, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: Audi Junkie ]
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You would not want "to strengthen weaknesses." You would want to diminsh them, neutralize them. You want to say that PAO and esters work ideally in a synergistic manner. My comment had nothing to do with the PAO/ester properties, as it is COMMON KNOWLEDGE around here. My issue was with your syntax and choice of words, which I found lacking clarity. Read again what you wrote and tell me that's proper:
Why do you think you car wants or needs 14.89 cSt of viscocity? Most modern cars are happier with around 10 cSt.
The other question is what kind of HTHS numbers are associated with this oil?
Red Line uses 100% polyol esters as their base fluid.
http://www.redlineoil.com/why_redline.asp
I'm not convinced that 100% ester is a great idea, but if it works OK.........
I've got a friend from my MBA school that one day decided to quit his management job and became a bartender in NYC. He's making more now than at his previous desk job.
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If you're old enough to post you have to learn to take the heat.
Anyway, V8Blitz, if I was giving you a hard time, I'm sorry. I'm just a sarcastic old nitpicker with a chip on my shoulder!
PS: TooSlick scares me. He knows way too much about people.
Oh, about 200 hits of "X" a week..................................................................JK!quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick:
Hey, cut the kid some slack ...he's only 23!
BTW, how many drugs do you have to sell to buy a $50k, Audi S4 at your age?
TS
No prob, bud!quote:
Originally posted by moribundman:
If you're old enough to post you have to learn to take the heat.
Anyway, V8Blitz, if I was giving you a hard time, I'm sorry. I'm just a sarcastic old nitpicker with a chip on my shoulder!
PS: TooSlick scares me. He knows way too much about people.
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