Spare Parts?

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

I have not had to do anything other than drop in parts for Glock, S&W, HK, Walther, and AR clones. With that said, nearly all of my pistols were made in the 21st century, though a few are not. I would state this would be the case for the majority of "modern" firearms.

So far, that has proven correct to the point that "modern firearms" are at the bottom of my list in terms of priority ( minus the AR platform and USGI)- I am focusing on vintage and old stuff because that is already dwindling in terms of availability and there is a market for refurbishment as well as new introductions ( many patents have expired too) [ plus I personally am a vintage and wheel gun kind of guy in my personal preference]

Another thing to be addressed is the "minute" differences in parts between calibers for the same model.

This is a very slow process

 

[Al]

I have 4 semi's. 3 would be fine for sd. If one breaks I am at a loss to understand why I would need a part (assuming I knew which part to fail) immediately om hand. There are these things called gun shops that stock parts. But whatever trips your trigger..

AZjeff said it better.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

I am at a loss to understand why I would need a part (assuming I knew which part to fail) immediately om hand.

Lets hope you never have to find out

There are these things called gun shops that stock parts.

Let me correct you. Except for "oddment' like what Brownells sells ( assorted screws, pins, sight balls, springs and "stuff") very few gun stores and even gunsmiths "stock parts" ( accessories are not internal parts).

Just too many of them and for the most part very slow movers. Small shops cant afford to tie up that much capital.

Even when I was a warranty/dealer for Remington and Browning, I wasn't required to carry parts.

 

[Al]

Lets hope you never have to find out

Its worked for 55 years of my pistol shooting, I see no reason to change..but thanks for your concern.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Its worked for 55 years of my pistol shooting, I see no reason to change..

I'm certain it has and in all reality you can expect probably another 55 out of normal use.

However, all things mechanical malfunction- its just a matter of time and hopefully that time wont be in a critical situation.

 

[UNC151]

There are these things called gun shops that stock parts. But whatever trips your trigger.

There are these things called gun shops all over the country that currently have empty walls and shelves. So no way to trip your trigger if it breaks.

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

If it was a rare firearm with hard to find or expensive parts I would. What I shoot is for fun, training and protection. Not into collecting guns to look at them.
I used to collect old race jet skis and would buy up parts when I found them. Sometimes it takes months to find what you need if you don’t have it or have to pay a lot more than you would like.

 

[Al]

There are these things called gun shops all over the country that currently have empty walls and shelves. So no way to trip your trigger if it breaks.

I have LancoTactical 2 miles away that are stacked to the gills with parts.

 

[UNC151]

I have LancoTactical 2 miles away that are stacked to the gills with parts.

Lucky you, that is not the case in many places. Houston's shelves are bare (at least in the 10 or so shops I have visited recently). Numrich is sold out of quite a bit, as is Brownells. Sign of the times...

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

with parts.

I would ask specifically ( if you know)

are these "accessories" parts or actual "innards' parts? ( in my area even the build kits are gone from the shelf)

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Numrich is sold out of quite a bit, as is Brownells

yep, another reason to keep getting them drawn up.

It is a real possibility many parts for older weapons may become 'extinct"

Probably not current production models and the most popular ones but many just the same.

 

[Al]

I would ask specifically ( if you know)

are these "accessories" parts or actual "innards' parts? ( in my area even the build kits are gone from the shelf)

Thanks

 

[Al]

Lucky you, that is not the case in many places. Houston's shelves are bare (at least in the 10 or so shops I have visited recently). Numrich is sold out of quite a bit, as is Brownells. Sign of the times...

I would not have thought that. Not arguing though.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Depending on the part, mostly a mill ( Minimum 3 axis and would need an indexer and rotary table with all the tooling)) but some would have to have a lathe.

Would have to have heat treat either way as well and some precision metrology capability and a surface plate

Making one from a copy is easy- making one from a picture is a different matter completely

Can you please explain what MIM firearms parts are? And, are they better/stronger than most firearms parts?
Thank You.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Can you please explain what MIM firearms parts are? And, are they better/stronger than most firearms parts?
Thank You.

Certainly

In layman's terms, its like making jello (for a visual effect)- you mix sintered metal ( powdered) with a binder ( to keep from clogging during the injection and allowing for flow just like water in a mud slurry) then bake in a mold.

Its superior to investment casting because the injection pressure ( almost always with vacuum on the end) makes for more uniform mold surface covering and the melting carrier allows for less porosity.

One big thing is that have the least "waste" in terms of machining ( a big financial incentive)

Better/stronger- this is debatable because "better" is hard to quality and is a moving target. "Stronger" is application specific and also is a moving target.

The inherent weakness of any MIM part is that is like any other casting in terms of there are limits to density, heat treatment, alloying and other things. So, parts like housings, lifters, some cams and parts not subject to stress or high shock loading can be made "strong enough" ( MIM will NEVER "equal" the strength of forged alloying but its not necessary that it does because that is often several times stronger than the application requires anyway)

The big thing is small parts (If I could afford the process I would use it myself in my retirement business because I am encountering the same thing)

"small parts' take more jigging and machine time and more waste than any frame, slide or other receiver. They are often impossible to nest and gang machine.

Here's an experiment- go to McMaster and order a piece of 3/4 key stock say 36" long.

Now get a manual mill ( or CNC) or even a hand file or Dremel ( just to illustrate the point in terms of all the machining operations)

Now make me just 1 "28" vent rib for the shotgun of your choice OR make me 30 sight kits ( front and rear) for your favorite pistol.

That will illustrate the value of the MIM process for parts that CAN be made that way.

Hope that helps

 

[wpod]

Or a cnc machine.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Or a cnc machine.

No, unfortunately not ( when you do the cost benefit analysis- which is another reason parts are scarce)

This is why I am designing "mini CNC"'s to do some of these things. ( basically component class specific CNC)

I'll tell you what I encounter and entertain comments ( would love someone to hand me a better option or idea to develop)

Forget the design, G,M & S codes and all the up front stuff- that has to be done once regardless- now lets talk production.

Lets say the home or hobby shop units ($30k and down)- it may take 2-3 set ups but it can make that part ( notice no "s' on the end) A full 5 axis + robot can do it all in probably 90 seconds but is going to cost $700k and up.

That part may sell for $30 retail. By the time you add paying that machine, tooling, coolant, machine time, any additional heat treat and of course finishing- that part is going to cost you about $20 to make. ( that's being generous)

That's a lot of parts ( machine running 24/7) every month you better sell to pay the bills.

This is why MIM, 3d printing and all that is getting used more and more- I speculate 85% of the parts inside a gun don't require CNC precision and accuracy to make and that machine time costs money.

Even in my example above and making them on a tree ( like a model kit parts- say I am getting 50 "semi finished' front sights on my key stock example above)- I still have to have at least 1 other operation ( and machine time) to "finish" that 50 sights ( finish as in machining only- still needs polishing and whatever else)

I'm all about ideas and creative thinking.. thoughts? suggestions?

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Certainly

In layman's terms, its like making jello (for a visual effect)- you mix sintered metal ( powdered) with a binder ( to keep from clogging during the injection and allowing for flow just like water in a mud slurry) then bake in a mold.

Its superior to investment casting because the injection pressure ( almost always with vacuum on the end) makes for more uniform mold surface covering and the melting carrier allows for less porosity.

One big thing is that have the least "waste" in terms of machining ( a big financial incentive)

Better/stronger- this is debatable because "better" is hard to quality and is a moving target. "Stronger" is application specific and also is a moving target.

The inherent weakness of any MIM part is that is like any other casting in terms of there are limits to density, heat treatment, alloying and other things. So, parts like housings, lifters, some cams and parts not subject to stress or high shock loading can be made "strong enough" ( MIM will NEVER "equal" the strength of forged alloying but its not necessary that it does because that is often several times stronger than the application requires anyway)

The big thing is small parts (If I could afford the process I would use it myself in my retirement business because I am encountering the same thing)

"small parts' take more jigging and machine time and more waste than any frame, slide or other receiver. They are often impossible to nest and gang machine.

Here's an experiment- go to McMaster and order a piece of 3/4 key stock say 36" long.

Now get a manual mill ( or CNC) or even a hand file or Dremel ( just to illustrate the point in terms of all the machining operations)

Now make me just 1 "28" vent rib for the shotgun of your choice OR make me 30 sight kits ( front and rear) for your favorite pistol.

That will illustrate the value of the MIM process for parts that CAN be made that way.

Hope that helps

Great explanation. Thank You.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

No, unfortunately not ( when you do the cost benefit analysis- which is another reason parts are scarce)

This is why I am designing "mini CNC"'s to do some of these things. ( basically component class specific CNC)

I'll tell you what I encounter and entertain comments ( would love someone to hand me a better option or idea to develop)

Forget the design, G,M & S codes and all the up front stuff- that has to be done once regardless- now lets talk production.

Lets say the home or hobby shop units ($30k and down)- it may take 2-3 set ups but it can make that part ( notice no "s' on the end) A full 5 axis + robot can do it all in probably 90 seconds but is going to cost $700k and up.

That part may sell for $30 retail. By the time you add paying that machine, tooling, coolant, machine time, any additional heat treat and of course finishing- that part is going to cost you about $20 to make. ( that's being generous)

That's a lot of parts ( machine running 24/7) every month you better sell to pay the bills.

This is why MIM, 3d printing and all that is getting used more and more- I speculate 85% of the parts inside a gun don't require CNC precision and accuracy to make and that machine time costs money.

Even in my example above and making them on a tree ( like a model kit parts- say I am getting 50 "semi finished' front sights on my key stock example above)- I still have to have at least 1 other operation ( and machine time) to "finish" that 50 sights ( finish as in machining only- still needs polishing and whatever else)

I'm all about ideas and creative thinking.. thoughts? suggestions?

Everyone has a boss, supervisor, foreman they usually answer to.
When I ran a fab shop (HVAC Piping) in FL. I had a supervisor I answered to.
Before he moved to FL. he owned a shop in Buffalo, NY. Some of the items he made were for the Space Shuttles. He also held the patents on several inventions. He also wrote a book on Metallurgy.
When I would prefab pipe, fittings, weldolets (2"-84"), structures for cooling towers, chillers, AHU's, etc., he would QC-AKA-quality check my work. I learned SO MUCH from that man! BTW, he was German. His family came from Munich, Germany to the US in 1902.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Just get a 1911 ... a firearm with probably the most avaialble parts in the world.