Solutions for DI Engines?

[poiuy223]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Alex38
I just won't be buying any vehicles with DI until they have been around longer and the manufacturers come up with a way to avoid this mess. I find it curious that Honda, which builds some of the best engines made, has not embraced DI with it's lineup in the way that some other companies have.


I think Honda is onto something, and if/when they bite the bullet they'll have it right.

The story seems would be quite different if we were talking about transmissions. I wouldn't be so quick to say that they would do it right if they came onboard for DI.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: poiuy223
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Alex38
I just won't be buying any vehicles with DI until they have been around longer and the manufacturers come up with a way to avoid this mess. I find it curious that Honda, which builds some of the best engines made, has not embraced DI with it's lineup in the way that some other companies have.


I think Honda is onto something, and if/when they bite the bullet they'll have it right.

The story seems would be quite different if we were talking about transmissions. I wouldn't be so quick to say that they would do it right if they came onboard for DI.


Then maybe they'll stand clear of DI and improve their current technology, Honda seems to have their engines down pat. I do agree their transmissions stink. I sold enough Hondas to learn that. I can't speak for anything newer than 2003 which is when I left them, friends still tell me they aren't much better.

 

[Gene K]

.....and I just thought they got the idea from Diesels.

 

[OVERKILL]

I like Ford's approach: Use cam timing to "wash" the valves. I think that is how we'll see DI succeed going forward.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I like Ford's approach: Use cam timing to "wash" the valves. I think that is how we'll see DI succeed going forward.


I like Ford's approach to just about everything. They'll nail it, by hook or by crook, DI is here to stay.

 

[Cup of Joe]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
I think what we will see is a throttle body injector (or some type of injector) placed in the intake track that will at times throw some fuel in BEFORE the valves that washes the oil/deposits off the valves.

When being used with the DI system that can back off not to make the intake charge richer.

Bill


Has anyone tried fitting an AMPCO oiler? Its been around for decades, mostly used in VW and early classics. I would adjust the metering via a valve and be done with it.

http://www.ampcolubes.com/index.php?content=vwkit

 

[demarpaint]

I mentioned an MMO Inverse Oiler a while back. I think it would help.

 

[Jeff_in_VABch]

Originally Posted By: TaterandNoodles
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
I think what we will see is a throttle body injector (or some type of injector) placed in the intake track that will at times throw some fuel in BEFORE the valves that washes the oil/deposits off the valves.

When being used with the DI system that can back off not to make the intake charge richer.

Bill


Has anyone tried fitting an AMPCO oiler? Its been around for decades, mostly used in VW and early classics. I would adjust the metering via a valve and be done with it.

http://www.ampcolubes.com/index.php?content=vwkit



I would be more inclined to run a NOS fogger nozzle on a throttle body spacer and blow it out a few times a year.

 

[johnachak]

Originally Posted By: chubbs1
I know there have been posts on this before. The best alternatives I had seen was don't buy them until the bugs were worked out. I Just got a 2011 Sonata GLS 2.4 GDI.

What are some ways we can keep these injectors clean?

Do you use fuel system cleaner? Do you think using MMO in the tank and the Crank Case?

Or is this a hopeless situation? Lets put some BITOG ideas together!


Not for nothing but my 2009 Cadillac with the D.i. is just fine with 2x a year M1 changes.

 

[johnachak]

Originally Posted By: Gene K
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Redline si-1 supposedly survives the combustion process and can help keep DI clean.


Thats good to know. Could help 4.7L Dodge with the carboning exhaust valve stems that then stick and pop off rocker arms.

But Im still puzzled how it removes carbon from the intake valves on a DI.


Yeah, since it never gets to the intake valves...

 

[johnachak]

Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Originally Posted By: Steve S
I don't think the injectors are a problem. MMO or cleaner in the fuel will not help . Let the dealer take care of the problems under warranty.


You do have a good point there.

What problems are there in the 2011 Hundai D.I?

 

[johnachak]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: A_Harman

I disagree with most of this. GDI engines may have first come to the public eye in racing at the LeMans 24-Hour, but that is not where its development started. Mitsubishi introduced wall-guided GDI engines into the Japanese market in the late '80's and early '90's, but they were not terribly successful due to problems with excess soot from the combustion process.


Fast forward to 2011, and they still haven't perfected them, that scares the carp out of me.


I cant take this di stuff anymore ... since 2008, there had to be Millions of D.I. engines sold... i don't see that many posts of blown engines. I see hundreds by people worried about them. But very few of real problems with them.

 

[gpshumway]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
I think what we will see is a throttle body injector (or some type of injector) placed in the intake track that will at times throw some fuel in BEFORE the valves that washes the oil/deposits off the valves.

When being used with the DI system that can back off not to make the intake charge richer.

Bill


Toyota's DI engine (in the Lexus IS350) has both port injectors and direct cylinder injectors, probably for this reason.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: johnachak
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: A_Harman

I disagree with most of this. GDI engines may have first come to the public eye in racing at the LeMans 24-Hour, but that is not where its development started. Mitsubishi introduced wall-guided GDI engines into the Japanese market in the late '80's and early '90's, but they were not terribly successful due to problems with excess soot from the combustion process.


Fast forward to 2011, and they still haven't perfected them, that scares the carp out of me.


I cant take this di stuff anymore ... since 2008, there had to be Millions of D.I. engines sold... i don't see that many posts of blown engines. I see hundreds by people worried about them. But very few of real problems with them.


We're not talking about blown engines, we're talking about intake valve deposits and oil dilution. Searching on this site mentions GM reprogramming their OLM [IIRC a member had a problem], so GM must realize there's a problem.

 

[johnachak]

My OLM was reprogrammed also. The original setting was nuts. Something like 10-12000 miles or a year of mixed driving. The engine has 3 timing chains. They reprogrammed it to a more sensible 7-8000 mile OCI to avoid timing chain wear.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: johnachak
My OLM was reprogrammed also. The original setting was nuts. Something like 10-12000 miles or a year of mixed driving. The engine has 3 timing chains. They reprogrammed it to a more sensible 7-8000 mile OCI to avoid timing chain wear.



That hopefully will take care of the oil dilution issues, as far as intake valve deposits that's another story.

 

[Ronn]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman


I cant take this di stuff anymore ... since 2008, there had to be Millions of D.I. engines sold... i don't see that many posts of blown engines. I see hundreds by people worried about them. But very few of real problems with them.


My sentiments completely!I have a Cobalt SS Turbo with DI..Yes, there will be intake valve deposits...so what? There are cars like mine running over 50K mi with ZERO issues!

Found this tidbit on GM cars (mine):

Haider, GM’s V6 assistant chief engineer, explained how GM has designed its DI engines to combat carbon buildup: “We maintain great engine function and performance in our all our DI engines through an optimization strategy with our valve events,” he said. “Our intake-cam timing, injector targeting and timing of the injection events are optimized to avoid direct fuel contact on the intake valves. This strategy keeps smoke and soot formation to an absolute minimum, which in turn prevents excessive deposit formation.”

 

[wallyuwl]

Originally Posted By: Ronn

My sentiments completely!I have a Cobalt SS Turbo with DI..Yes, there will be intake valve deposits...so what? There are cars like mine running over 50K mi with ZERO issues!

Found this tidbit on GM cars (mine):

Haider, GM’s V6 assistant chief engineer, explained how GM has designed its DI engines to combat carbon buildup: “We maintain great engine function and performance in our all our DI engines through an optimization strategy with our valve events,” he said. “Our intake-cam timing, injector targeting and timing of the injection events are optimized to avoid direct fuel contact on the intake valves. This strategy keeps smoke and soot formation to an absolute minimum, which in turn prevents excessive deposit formation.”



That sounds a lot like what Ford is saying about their new DI engines.

I have a 2.4L DI from GM. No problems so far related to the DI and I'm at almost 32k miles. I do plan to use the Mopar Combustion Champer Cleaner right before my next oil change.

 

[demarpaint]

I wonder why if there are NO problems with DI engines how come there is so much discussion about them having problems? People don't write about problems they aren't having. Engineers don't have to write articles to comfort owners and potential customers if problems don't exist, it makes no sense to me. JMO

 

[A_Harman]

That could be because Audi and Toyota had intake valve carboning issues with their early GDI engines, and it has sensitized the automotive community to the issue. Now all GDI engines are suspect. Engineers are probably writing articles to comfort owners because they also read blogs like this one and feel the need to make their case against criticism that is based on rumor and innuendo.