Sodium

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Originally Posted By: kschachn
Nope, the sodium in those two things is exactly the same.


So are you trying to tell me that when adding chloride to sodium it becomes salt ?
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OK I looked it up on the internet. I be educated now.
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"Salt (NaCl) is a natural mineral made up of white cube-shaped crystals composed of two elements, sodium and chlorine. It is translucent, colourless, odourless (officially, though we think you can smell the freshness of the sea in one of our boxes) and has a distinctive and characteristic taste."
Source
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
What role does iodine play in all of this?

It saves your car from thyroid problems during excessive moisture ingestion.
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Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Are you telling me that the sodium they put in motor oil and the sodium that's on the shelf at the grocery store are two different things ?

The sodium itself is the same, because sodium is an element. However, they're present in totally different compounds. The oxygen in a water molecule is certainly not interchangeable with the diatomic oxygen in the air for your body as a breathing gas, even though the oxygen atoms in both are identical. In the former case, one is bonded to two hydrogen atoms; in the latter, one is bonded to another oxygen atom.

As I've mentioned, elemental sodium should be avoided in your diet because eating it will cause you bigger problem than high blood pressure, notably when you bite down on it with your wet mouth.
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Note that elemental sodium is highly reactive with water, to the point of being dangerous, and chlorine was used for chemical warfare. Yet, you combine them both, and you get something that you don't want in excess, but your body needs to live.

As for table salt, yes, the chloride has to be there with the sodium, or it's not a salt from a chemistry perspective, or table salt, either. Neither elemental sodium nor elemental chlorine are salts. The Wikipedia definition of a salt from a chemistry perspective is sufficient: "In chemistry, a salt is an ionic compound that can be formed by the neutralization reaction of an acid and a base."

This is pure sodium, very different than the table salt with which we're all very familiar, and the sodium compound going into a motor oil is very different from both:

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Merk, as my folks would say, you are “full of pea and vinegar” lately. I never quite figured out the meaning but something to do with being active and rambunctious.
 
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
....... this combination DOUBLED the incidents of LSPI in testing. That is probably why Sodium is disappearing from D1G2 formulations.................................
My guess is that, unless some groundbreaking discovery is made, sodium in any discerned amount will absent in most oils in the future. Calcium will probably stay in the below 1500 ppm range. This is assuming newer emissions and CAFE regs do not impact LSPI further.


Have you seen sodium disappear yet? Any VOA or UOA to show that?
Sounds reasonable. Waiting for the actual truth though.
If sodium remains in Valvoline (and others), then maybe they figured out another way to prevent LSPI and keep their sodium.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
WOW! This thread turned out to be a physics class! How'd that happen ?
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This thread has taught me that chlorine and chloride are the same thing.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
....... this combination DOUBLED the incidents of LSPI in testing. That is probably why Sodium is disappearing from D1G2 formulations.................................
My guess is that, unless some groundbreaking discovery is made, sodium in any discerned amount will absent in most oils in the future. Calcium will probably stay in the below 1500 ppm range. This is assuming newer emissions and CAFE regs do not impact LSPI further.


Have you seen sodium disappear yet? Any VOA or UOA to show that?
Sounds reasonable. Waiting for the actual truth though.
If sodium remains in Valvoline (and others), then maybe they figured out another way to prevent LSPI and keep their sodium.

I haven't seen sodium in any of the D1G2 VOA's posted on here. I think we have QSUD. PP, and Amsoil SS so far. Calcium has dropped in all 3.
Why would an oil formulator add sodium to an oil, knowing they would actually have to add something else just to hopefully combat its' LSPI proclivity?
 
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Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
WOW! This thread turned out to be a physics class! How'd that happen ?
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When are you planning your lab excercise to firsthand answer your question on what happens when sodium is combined with water? It definitely needs video to show you completed finding your answer.
 
Originally Posted By: Wurlitzer
This thread has taught me that chlorine and chloride are the same thing.

To be picky, one is the name for the element itself, generally as a diatomic gas. Chloride is the anion of chlorine.

Merk, it's not physics, it's chemistry. And yes, get your camera ready so we can watch you put elemental sodium in water. There are YouTube videos, if you're a chicken.
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Elemental sodium is usually stored in oil in the lab for a reason. One to search for is "Don't Flush Sodium Down the Toilet."
 
bland oil is like bland food just add some sodium to make it better.

^^ disregard that statement because i did fail chemistry class in school
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Originally Posted By: Wurlitzer
This thread has taught me that chlorine and chloride are the same thing.

If you say so. But remind me never to have dinner over at your house.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Nope, the sodium in those two things is exactly the same.

So are you trying to tell me that when adding chloride to sodium it becomes salt ?
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If you can find a bottle of chloride, yes.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Elemental sodium is usually stored in oil in the lab for a reason. One to search for is "Don't Flush Sodium Down the Toilet."

Potassium works better, the heat of that reaction is enough to ignite the liberated hydrogen.

Cesium is even better.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn

Potassium works better, the heat of that reaction is enough to ignite the liberated hydrogen.

Cesium is even better.
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Originally Posted By: bigj_16
I haven't seen sodium in any of the D1G2 VOA's posted on here. I think we have QSUD. PP, and Amsoil SS so far. Calcium has dropped in all 3.
Why would an oil formulator add sodium to an oil, knowing they would actually have to add something else just to hopefully combat its' LSPI proclivity?

dexos1 Gen2 oils so far seen, as you mentioned, Quaker, Penz, and Amsoil. Point is, they never had sodium before, so we don't expect them to suddenly add it for dexos1 Gen2.
-----No surprise that about all we can see they did in traditionally non-sodium oils was lower Ca and maybe raise moly, both moves that keep LSPI at bay.

Valvoline has traditionally used sodium. (Now it may not; don't know yet.)
Other previous sodium users to watch: NAPA syn, Royal Purple, Schaeffers, Lucas, & some other smaller players.
They may all need to get rid of sodium, but it would be really interesting to see sodium stay in some of those while something else in it quenches LSPI.
 
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Valvoline Advanced Synthetic is dexos gen 2 certified but we haven’t had the pleasure of a voa posted yet. There are dozens of oils certified.
 
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