Sodium Based Add Pack & TBN

[Gene K]

I was just looking at the November 7, 2011 Testing on PQIA and something really jumped out at me.

With conventional add packs the TBN runs 7.1-8.3 with lots of the Premium Brands in the 8's.

With Sodium add packs the TBN runs 6.1 - 7.3 with lots of the Premium Brands in the low 6's.

Mobil Special (Conventional Add Pack) is 8.3 TBN but is supposed to be positioned below Mobil Super 5000 (Sodium Add Pack) which is 7.3 TBN.

This makes me think the Sodium Add Packs may be superior in TBN retention or effective to a lower TBN level or both.

Has anyone got any info on this subject?

 

[Donald]

I'll let the oil companies figure out which components make up the best additive package. To me its similar to trying to blend your own oil. Why?

But its a package, not a specific component. The better oils have better additive packages and a higher TBN.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: Gene K
I was just looking at the November 7, 2011 Testing on PQIA and something really jumped out at me.

With conventional add packs the TBN runs 7.1-8.3 with lots of the Premium Brands in the 8's.

With Sodium add packs the TBN runs 6.1 - 7.3 with lots of the Premium Brands in the low 6's.

Mobil Special (Conventional Add Pack) is 8.3 TBN but is supposed to be positioned below Mobil Super 5000 (Sodium Add Pack) which is 7.3 TBN.

This makes me think the Sodium Add Packs may be superior in TBN retention or effective to a lower TBN level or both.

Has anyone got any info on this subject?


I don't think it's that simple.

Valvoline uses Na and it's Tbn retention is not that great.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: Donald
I'll let the oil companies figure out which components make up the best additive package. To me its similar to trying to blend your own oil. Why?

But its a package, not a specific component. The better oils have better additive packages and a higher TBN.


Agree, except the higher initial Tbn isn't that important.

 

[Gene K]

Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: Gene K
I was just looking at the November 7, 2011 Testing on PQIA and something really jumped out at me.

With conventional add packs the TBN runs 7.1-8.3 with lots of the Premium Brands in the 8's.

With Sodium add packs the TBN runs 6.1 - 7.3 with lots of the Premium Brands in the low 6's.

Mobil Special (Conventional Add Pack) is 8.3 TBN but is supposed to be positioned below Mobil Super 5000 (Sodium Add Pack) which is 7.3 TBN.

This makes me think the Sodium Add Packs may be superior in TBN retention or effective to a lower TBN level or both.

Has anyone got any info on this subject?


I don't think it's that simple.

Valvoline uses Na and it's Tbn retention is not that great.


Buster Im trying to figure out if less TBN is needed with the sodium add pack or is it an inherit limitation to what you can do with that type add pack.

I was hoping someone who know why as a general reason the sodium add packs tended to be lower tbn.

 

[SnPb]

I don't know what advantage Sodium compounds might have over Calcium or Magnesium compounds, if any, but I noticed that Ashland increased the amount of Sodium slightly in their SN version of SynPower. At the same time the amount of Calcium increased significantly, by 32% in my UOA's. I read that the SN specification requires better TBN retention than did SM and perhaps that is the reason why Ashland increased the amount of Sodium and Calcium with SN.

 

[A_Harman]

I have read that Magnesium detergents are better for TBN retention than Calcium.

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: Gene K
I was just looking at the November 7, 2011 Testing on PQIA and something really jumped out at me.

With conventional add packs the TBN runs 7.1-8.3 with lots of the Premium Brands in the 8's.

With Sodium add packs the TBN runs 6.1 - 7.3 with lots of the Premium Brands in the low 6's.

Mobil Special (Conventional Add Pack) is 8.3 TBN but is supposed to be positioned below Mobil Super 5000 (Sodium Add Pack) which is 7.3 TBN.

This makes me think the Sodium Add Packs may be superior in TBN retention or effective to a lower TBN level or both.

Has anyone got any info on this subject?


I noticed that as well Gene. If you look at the rest of the elements for the sodium oils you'll see that most are the same formulation, i.e. the Lubrizol SN additive package. Apparently this add-pak has a lower TBN than others, but not sure how much of it is related to the sodium component.

Tom NJ

 

[jaj]

Perhaps someone could explain what TBN retention means? My understanding of TBN is that it's a measure of how much acid the additives can neutralize. A higher TBN means it handles more acid.

So, TBN is a signal of how much "chemical wear" is on the oil. The concept that an oil with good "TBN retention" will last longer and handle more acid even with a low TBN. Wouldn't that just be exactly the same thing as a higher TBN?

What am I missing?