Amsoil XL 5w30, 10K OCI, 2006 Expeditition

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Here is my latest UOA on my expedition. There was some concerns last time about possible coolant intrusion in the oil based off the sodium, viscosity, and high TBN. It appears that the issue either fixed itself, or as suspected by some last time, the samples got switched. this time when i sent it in, i put my unit number on the bottle and cap, so if there was any questions i could call the lab and have them look for the bottle with my number on it. All in all, wear metals are consistent with previous samples. 10,000 on the amsoil XL looks to be a cake-walk. Make up oil in the 10,000 run was about 2 quarts adding about a 1/2 quart every 2,000 miles. it appears that is a good protocol to follow based on the relatively high TBN at the end of the run. That is to say, i didn't add a full quart of oil at the end of the run that would artificially boost the TBN. This would have been a summer OCI with lots of towing and lots of long interstate runs, with the usual 30 mile drive to work and back. I'm not sure if i'm going to continue with the Amsoil XL or not. I'm leaning toward going back to Castrol Edge in the Gold Bottle, or Castrol Edge High-mileage. it looks like dollar for dollar, it is a better bargain. the Amsoil holds the TBN a bit better, but the wear numbers for the Castrol products look to be lower across the board. The viscosity appears to end up the same regardless of what i use, so i'm thinking it is going to be the Castrol oil that i can easily get at walmart for ~$5/quart in the big jugs rather than the ~$7/quart Amsoil. every time i change the oil on this truck i think it is going to be the last one. Despite what the wear numbers might lead you to believe, it runs as good as it did at 104,000 miles when i bought it. It looks like i'll be making medial payments for the next 11 months, so i'll have to keep it that long. Nothing in the UOA's leads me to think that the engine will give out. something else, perhaps, but nothing in the engine. discussions, thoughts, and opinions welcomed and wanted!
Code
OIL             Amsoil		Amsoil		Castrol 5w30	Mobil 1		Castrol 5w30	Castrol 5w30	
		XL 5w30		XL 5w30		Edge		5w30 		Edge		Edge		
		New Formula	New Formula	High Mileage	Gold Bottle	Gold Bottle	

MILES IN USE   	10,029		9,962		9,787		6,856		9,060		9,980		  
MILES           210,032		200,003		190,041		172,300		158,145		149,085		  
SAMPLE TAKEN    12/19/18	5/15/18		11/8/17		02/18/17	06/16/16	01/14/16	  

   
Metals (ppm)   
IRON           	94 		14		51		110		71		88
CHROMIUM       	2 		1		<1		2		<1		2
LEAD           	<1 		8		<1		<1		<1		1
COPPER         	3 		7		2		3		3		4
TIN            	3 		<1		<1		3		2		<1
ALUMINUM       	18 		<1		11		27		12		19
NICKEL         	<1 		<1		<1		<1		1		<1
SILVER         	<1 		<1		<1		<1		<1		<1
TITANIUM       	<1 		19		22		<1		21		20
VANADIUM	<1		<1		<1		<1		<1		<1

Contaminants (ppm)
SILICON       	14		12		12		15		11		12
SODIUM        	6		103  		15		34		24		18
POTASSIUM     	2		<1  		3		10		<1		<1

Additives (ppm)
MAGNESIUM     	1253		486  		85		1048		154		278
CALCIUM       	1339		1229  		2202		1375		1770		1990
BARIUM          <1		<1		<1		<1		1		<1
PHOSPHORUS      661		864		648		900		637		648
ZINC            756		1035		796		970		667		755
MOLYBDENUM      71		38		79		95		66		69
BORON           37		112		52		200		62		58

Contaminants
WATER (%)	<0.05%		<0.05		<0.05		<0.05		<0.05		<0.05
Coolant		No		No		No		No		No		No

Physical Tests
Visc (cSt 100C)	9.2		17.9		10.3		9.0		9.0		8.9
 
TBN (mgKOH/g)	2.4		7.3		1.2		3.0		1.4		2.4
 
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Holy heck that's a Huge difference in the last 2 XL runs....any idea why the TBN and Iron are so different? (I'm thinking it was a bad sample or test, since viscosity is way Way WAY over a 30 grade oil) It does look like the Castrol will work better for your engine. Definitely stay away from the M1....plenty of wear there!
 
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No offence, but these results continue to be awful. Engine is wearing very badly, with both excessive cylinder. piston, and bearing wear. Apparently, though, it isn't stopping this vehicle, as it chugs along past 200k miles. I hope you continue to have good luck with it!
 
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Castrol Edge Gold has changed. It's built for lspi, TGDI/GDI engines. Built also for 20K service. Your old analysis of it is not comparable anymore. But I encourage you to try it (new batch). It's supposedly loaded with goodies.
 
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ONN: This would a good engine to test Tribotex in I would think. If it really does provide diamond like surfaces then we should see a reduction in wear metals I would think... JFWIW
 

meborder

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Originally Posted by StevieC
ONN: This would a good engine to test Tribotex in I would think. If it really does provide diamond like surfaces then we should see a reduction in wear metals I would think... JFWIW
Never heard of it and just looked it up. for the price of admission, i doubt i'll ever find out whether it works or not. WOW! I'd love to try it, but not at that price.
Originally Posted by JLTD
Holy heck that's a Huge difference in the last 2 XL runs....any idea why the TBN and Iron are so different? (I'm thinking it was a bad sample or test, since viscosity is way Way WAY over a 30 grade oil) It does look like the Castrol will work better for your engine. Definitely stay away from the M1....plenty of wear there!
It is in the first line of the post, but i think the last sample of XL was not my sample. XL doesn't have any titanium, and based on previous samples it all washes out when changed. I included it because it is there, but i'll probably delete it if i sample it again. I don't think that was my oil. nothing makes sense in that UOA for it to be mine.
Originally Posted by addyguy
No offence, but these results continue to be awful. Engine is wearing very badly, with both excessive cylinder. piston, and bearing wear. Apparently, though, it isn't stopping this vehicle, as it chugs along past 200k miles. I hope you continue to have good luck with it!
Originally Posted by StevieC
If there was ever a "Don't Panic" trend of UOA's this is it. Thanks to the OP for sharing this trend. thumbsup
This is why i'm posting it. I've been throwing numbers like that since my first sample at 114,000. it has been consistently high since i bought it. The lab isn't worried about it and says the wear numbers are "low" even at 110 with the M1. It kinda just is what it is. I'd like lower wear numbers, just like everyone else in the world, but it doesn't seem to be hurting anything. Maybe it will wear out in 300,000 miles instead of 600,000. IDK. i'm hoping to not care at 250,000 or less. I've made it this far, hopefully all i need is another 20,000 miles or so and i'm in something newer.
Originally Posted by dave1251
Go to a 40 grade of your choice the engine is more than loose enough to benefit from a 40 grade.
I've been tinkering with the idea of getting 5w40 for top-up oil in an attempt to keep the oil in the 30 grade, rather than slipping down into the 20's like it always has.
 
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What about the Amsoil SS 5w30 ? Go up a bit in oil quality for one change, and see if the wear metals come down. Over a 10k life of the oil, your only talking about $20 more in cost.
 
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Originally Posted by addyguy
No offence, but these results continue to be awful. Engine is wearing very badly, with both excessive cylinder. piston, and bearing wear. Apparently, though, it isn't stopping this vehicle, as it chugs along past 200k miles. I hope you continue to have good luck with it!
Or maybe these oil tests for passenger vehicles, especially lower value ones, are a waste of money. With a 10K OCI, can these tests even measure the amount of sludge and varnish building up inside the engine? Save the money on the tests and use it to change the oil twice as often.
 

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Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by addyguy
No offence, but these results continue to be awful. Engine is wearing very badly, with both excessive cylinder. piston, and bearing wear. Apparently, though, it isn't stopping this vehicle, as it chugs along past 200k miles. I hope you continue to have good luck with it!
Or maybe these oil tests for passenger vehicles, especially lower value ones, are a waste of money. With a 10K OCI, can these tests even measure the amount of sludge and varnish building up inside the engine? Save the money on the tests and use it to change the oil twice as often.
Fair enough comment, but a full OCI costs me $50-$70 depending on which synthetic I use. The sample kits cost me $7 Mostly I'm trying to learn which oils can stand up to a 10k OCI under my rather harsh conditions and use. Why do you think my engine would be full of varnish and sludge? I should buy a bore scope ... would be fun to sneak a peek inside down the cam covers.
 

MolaKule

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The 5/15/18 viscosity number cannot be accurate since the XL 5W30 cannot have that viscosity at that temperature. Someone used a 40 grade before that analysis or that analysis is not to be believed.
 
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Originally Posted by meborder
Why do you think my engine would be full of varnish and sludge?
Look at the dipstick after 3-4,000 miles. Pretty dark, if not, certainly by 5K. Those contaminants will eventually settle out causing at least some varnish, and at most sludge. The less frequently you change out the oil, the more sludge can form. Not sure how often the oil was changed in this engine but assume more than 5K miles between changes. [Linked Image] Not sure how often the oil was changed in this engine but assume less than 10K miles between changes. [Linked Image]
 
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Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by meborder
Why do you think my engine would be full of varnish and sludge?
Look at the dipstick after 3-4,000 miles. Pretty dark, if not, certainly by 5K. Those contaminants will eventually settle out causing at least some varnish, and at most sludge. The less frequently you change out the oil, the more sludge can form. Not sure how often the oil was changed in this engine but assume more than 5K miles between changes. [Linked Image] Not sure how often the oil was changed in this engine but assume less than 10K miles between changes. [Linked Image]
Or it could be 20,000 miles on conventional, and 10k on a solid synthetic. Posting pictures of valvetrains without any story behind it....not best practice. Oil is designed to hold those particles in suspension. Only when the oil's capacity is exceeded is sludge formed (in general). Each oil / engine combo has an OCI distance that is safe yet not wasteful of good oil. UOAs are required to make that decision.
 

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Originally Posted by MolaKule
The 5/15/18 viscosity number cannot be accurate since the XL 5W30 cannot have that viscosity at that temperature. Someone used a 40 grade before that analysis or that analysis is not to be believed.
The comments from the lab were to suspect coolant intrusion into the oil. When I called them they said that the high viscosity and high tbn were common signs of coolant in the oil. They said they ran the TBN twice to verify. I think it is more likely that the samples got switched. If you look at the numbers side by side, it doesn't look like XL 5w30. It looks more like syntec 5w40 to me. But I don't think that is my sample.
 
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Originally Posted by JLTD
Oil is designed to hold those particles in suspension. Only when the oil's capacity is exceeded is sludge formed (in general). Each oil / engine combo has an OCI distance that is safe yet not wasteful of good oil. UOAs are required to make that decision.
But the OCI's are exaggerated by the manufacturer as a marketing ploy to sell their cars as having reduced maintenance requirements. As long as the engine is likely to make it through the warranty period, the manufacturer is ok with that. Doesn't mean the engine won't have problems afterwards.
 

meborder

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FoMoCo recommends 5,000 normal and 3,000 severe for my vehicle. Based on my UOA's the lab feels that a 10,000 mile OCI is a good service plan for this vehicle and the use it sees. Why pay for the analysis if you are just going to discount what they say? Am I wrong?
 

MolaKule

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Originally Posted by meborder
Originally Posted by MolaKule
The 5/15/18 viscosity number cannot be accurate since the XL 5W30 cannot have that viscosity at that temperature. Someone used a 40 grade before that analysis or that analysis is not to be believed.
The comments from the lab were to suspect coolant intrusion into the oil. When I called them they said that the high viscosity and high tbn were common signs of coolant in the oil. They said they ran the TBN twice to verify. I think it is more likely that the samples got switched. If you look at the numbers side by side, it doesn't look like XL 5w30. It looks more like syntec 5w40 to me. But I don't think that is my sample.
If the analyses say no coolant and very little moisture how can that be? Coolant intrusion turns it thin and milky/cloudy.
 
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