So, Who was the first in Synthetics?

cryptokid · Nov 4, 2004

so then if amsoil was the first to make an api spec oil, who was the first to apply for api approval using a syn oil?

is it not so great to make somthing for which there is little demand if no one else bothered to even try before?

i goess i dont understand why most amsoil supporters bash api but are proud of being the first api syn oil.

Pablo · Nov 4, 2004

Crypto actually I agree with your last line, and have just come to accept it as marketing hypeage.

Mickey_M · Nov 4, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Bill:
I remember reading this story, I do not think he recommended 100,000 mile oil changes, he told of how he was able to run a 100,000 oil change with a Lincoln (or some large Ford with a huge engine), he worked for an engineering department for the Ford Motor Company. ....
This gentleman also mentioned his department received some (synthetic) oil from a lube manufacturer free, and this synthetic ran more then three cycles and maintained its lubricity while most petroleum lubes would turn to goo or molasses during the second cycle.

It was Ray Potter.

He worked for Ford at the Research and Engineering Lab as chief of lubrication research.

The story he told was that they got samples from a company unsolicited. They stuck them out in the engine house and forgot about them.

An engine on the dynamometer was about to go off schedule and they were short of oil, so they stuck the synthetic in and ran it "192 hours".

The engine was so clean they ran it another 192 hours. They did it a third time. Everything looked great.

He then ran the same brand of motor oil in his personal Lincoln for 100,000 miles with filter changes at 12,000 miles with a quart added every 1,000 miles and oil analyses done.

Remember that Ray Potter at the point he told the story was a consultant.

Mickey_M · Nov 4, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by cryptokid:
so then if amsoil was the first to make an api spec oil, who was the first to apply for api approval using a syn oil?

There are some other possibilities for "first", but they're all gone now.

All Proof was a polyolester based synthetic, Eon was a diester bottled by Pacer in Houston.

tdi-rick · Nov 4, 2004

quote:

Eon was a diester bottled by Pacer in Houston.

Mikey, am I right in that Eon was renamed NEO after a similar suit to what happened to Amsoil was brought on them by Exxon ?

I vaguely remember being told this story years ago by the original Aussie Neo importer. If it's correct, they are still blending and bottling.

swedishiron · Nov 4, 2004

palmerwmd...

Check your history - the Chinese were doing some serious Chemistry many, many a century ago - using chemisty to refine metals, make rockets propellants etc etc.

The Germans weren't the only manipulating molecules.

"The Germans, when it came to Chemistry, up until WWII they were the only game in town."

farfel · Nov 4, 2004

The Chinese did lots of experimentation (as did the Romans-who invented the first steam engine), but the Chinese/Romans failed to USE their inventions.

quote:

Originally posted by Pablo:
(Amsoil has ZERO to do with Amway)

Although they do use the same pyramid scheme. I can understand why, after all the millions who have been scammed by other ponzi/pyramid companies (Amway, Nutralife, Equinox), they would equate AMSoil with that industry.

Sooo... AMSoil was first in *consumer* synthetics.

Pablo · Nov 4, 2004

While I'll be the first to argue that China indeed was up and learning while Europe was still in the crib, I must say the "west" and in particular Germany and USA were the leaders in true organic (carbon) chemistry.

China WAS way, way ahead in many things, synthetic lubes and O-chem wasn't one of them.

Pablo · Nov 4, 2004

It's Amsoil and it's not a "pyramid scheme". It's called multilevel marketing and is 100% legal. Pyramids are not legal and don't involve selling a product.

farfel · Nov 5, 2004

The MLM called Equinox sold a product (water filters/vitamins) but it was declared a "pyramid" and shut down. Ditto many, many other product-selling companies listed at http://www.worldwidescam.com

AMSoil uses the exact same MLM structure that Equinox did, so even though I personally believe Mr. AMS is an honest man, I can understand why people shy away from and/or distrust that structure.

47HO · Nov 5, 2004

quote:

I can understand why people shy away from and/or distrust that structure

Comparing the two is like comparing Enron to the rest of the country's corporate structure.

Ninjaracer636 · Nov 5, 2004

Do you guys think Amsoil would change their model of marketing iff they get bigger ? I drive 35 minutes to pick it up at the distribution warehouse... Still better than waiting in line at Wal-Mart for Mobil 1

pbm · Nov 5, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Bill:
I remember reading this story, I do not think he recommended 100,000 mile oil changes, he told of how he was able to run a 100,000 oil change with a Lincoln (or some large Ford with a huge engine), he worked for an engineering department for the Ford Motor Company.
The 100,000 mile oil change interval was done with 1 quart of oil added every 5,000 miles to top up (oil burn off), also, I believe he replaced the oil filter every so often.
If my memory serves me the oil's condition was monitored during the 100,000 mile interval.
This gentleman also mentioned his department received some (synthetic) oil from a lube manufacturer free, and this synthetic ran more then three cycles and maintained its lubricity while most petroleum lubes would turn to goo or molasses during the second cycle.
This article showed burn off percentages and many other comparisons for many of the oils synthetic & petroleum sold during the seventies.

Bill

Bill: I still have a copy of that issue and you are exactly right. The engineer was running a 460 CID Ford. He also stated that a little sludge in an engine doesn't hurt anything.
Regarding some of the wannabees who came over to Synthetics in the early 1990's, some were excellent oils. Amoco's Ultimate, Valvoline Syn (PAO variety) which was advertised as having no VI improver was used by team Unser in their racecars with excellent results. Pennzoil Performax was also an excellent oil. Its a shame that these companies went the Group 3 route.
PS. I still have quarts of all of these in my collection. Am I crazy or what.

ULVER · Nov 5, 2004

What did Amzoil and Mobil 1 cost a quart, when they first were available to the public?

honus402 · Nov 5, 2004

Interesting thread. Back in the 70's, Conoco DN600 was a very popular oil in Alaska. Couldn't have gotten by without it with the old pushrod big blocks. I wondered what happened to it. On a second note; we had an old jeep that ran 60K miles with c-130 syn turbine oil that we picked up as military surplus ($1.00 case of 24). Still running good when we sold it. We tried it as an experiment thinking we had nothing to loose. I suppose it was about a 5 weight at any temp and I believe was made by Bray Oil Co.

Big Jim · Nov 5, 2004

pbm I remember that article very well too. At the time it was published it was the longest article that Popular Science had ever published. I'm pretty sure that the Lincoln engine involved was an older style than the 460, either a 430 or a 462.

The trial on his personal Lincoln was not completed until after he retired but he had Ford's interest enough that they installed a new engine in his car so they could take his apart for inspection.

Mickey_M · Nov 5, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by tdi-rick:
Mikey, am I right in that Eon was renamed NEO after a similar suit to what happened to Amsoil was brought on them by Exxon ?

No, "Eon" became "Ultron". And then Pacer got out of the motor oil business.

Pacer is now the specialty industrial lubricants
division of South Coast Terminals, Inc..

OdinsRageSS · Nov 5, 2004

the germans OWN!
http://germans.ytmnd.com/

let it load!

Ugly3 · Nov 5, 2004

pbm - Pennzoil Performax was also an excellent oil. Its a shame that these companies went the Group 3 route.

Just put the last of my 5w30 Pennzoil Performax for 1997 in my wife's car last month. Good stuff. Will be using GC for the spring change.

pbm · Nov 5, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Big Jim:
pbm I remember that article very well too. At the time it was published it was the longest article that Popular Science had ever published. I'm pretty sure that the Lincoln engine involved was an older style than the 460, either a 430 or a 462.

The trial on his personal Lincoln was not completed until after he retired but he had Ford's interest enough that they installed a new engine in his car so they could take his apart for inspection.

Big Jim: You may be right about the size of that motor. The article is buried up in my attic somewhere but I definitely still have it. (I have a hard time throwing away any of my old car related magazines, much to my wifes chagrin).I do remember the engineers quote about a little sludge not hurting anything but personnally I prefer a clean engine.

So, Who was the first in Synthetics?

Similar threads