So Long, Ford 5.4.

[mrsilv04]

Originally Posted By: musicmanbass
That motor will not be missed by anyone...

except by repair shops and companies that rebuild heads.


Originally Posted By: milwaukee
I can't say I mind to see it go. I have a $100 dollar tool in my garage to remove a "piece" of a specific spark plug in a specific motor (a 5.4 3v).

It is one of the dumbest designs in automotive history.




Where's the criticism of these comments? Why was it just my comment that drew attention?

(Answer - it is likely because of what is in my signature file...)

 

[Ben99GT]

Where did they slam the 5.4 for "start up knock"?

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Originally Posted By: Nick R

And I could ask you the same thing. Do YOU even have a 5.4 that you had knock to make a comment on? No? By the way, I agree with Ben99GT, but I know a perfect word to describe you. It starts with a big fat letter H. Pot, meet kettle.


Hey Nick...

Ben dragged the 5.3 into this topic... which I do happen to own.

Get it now?







Except the 5.3L piston slap is a VERY WELL DOCUMENTED "problem".




The 2.2L in my cavalier also known for piston slap. Mine doesn't have it, but that doesn't mean none do. I'm sure there are a few knocking/piston slap 5.4L, but not nearly as common, widespread, and well documented as the 5.3L Votec slap.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: musicmanbass
That motor will not be missed by anyone...

except by repair shops and companies that rebuild heads.


The thread issue (2V) and the breaking off of the extended lower portion of the plug (3V) both had specific tools developed to fix the issues in the vehicle without the head having to be removed.

On the 2V revised plugs were developed. The same goes for the 3V, but obviously to deal with the VERY different issue.

The V10 and the 4.6L are prone to the same issue(s).

 

[panthermike]

I'm excited for the new powertrains, I hope they prove to be durable. As for the 5.4; it may be outdated but I believe a reliable engine. My dad sold his 97' F250 LD w/ 130K, which saw "OK" maintenance and no plug changes. My brother sold his 01' F150 5.4 when it had 200K, w/ TERRIBLE maintenance and no plug/filter/other fluid changes at all. Both of them never had any major issues.

As for the 3V, my brother has an 07' that has 52K, it's had no major issues. It does have a "ping" however.

 

[mrsilv04]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Where did they slam the 5.4 for "start up knock"?

Are you serious?

One said that it won't be missed, except by repair shops... and the other referred to it as one of the dumbest designs in automotive history...

I was responding to THOSE comments, about not being loved.

But then *I* get attacked?

Wow...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: milwaukee
I can't say I mind to see it go. I have a $100 dollar tool in my garage to remove a "piece" of a specific spark plug in a specific motor (a 5.4 3v).

It is one of the dumbest designs in automotive history.


Only $100? That's a small fraction of the price of replacing the timing belt on many import engines. Is that one of the "dumbest designs in automotive history"?

Ford's EXECUTION of the 3V plugs was the issue. Revised plugs fixed the problem. It was an idea that was really "good" in engineering land. Not so good in actual application. I do believe insufficient field testing was the cause.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/11/ford-f-150-engines-for-2011-announced-includes-ecoboost-v6/

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline...2-liter-v8.html

Say farewell to that slow (by 2011 standards) and spark plug eating dinosaur.

Good riddance.


Curious as to how a 3-valve SOHC (and in some cases, 4-valve DOHC) engine with a robust lower-end, complex variable cam timing setup with coil-on-plug ignition and roller cam followers can be called a "dinosaur"? Especially given that there are many engines currently in production which are far less refined.....

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Where did they slam the 5.4 for "start up knock"?

Are you serious?

One said that it won't be missed, except by repair shops... and the other referred to it as one of the dumbest designs in automotive history ...

But then *I* get attacked?

Wow...


*You* weren't attacked!

People are entitled to their opinions and I'm not going to argue with everyone that disapproves of a Ford product. However, when a 5.3 owner slams the 5.4 for "start up knock" it definitely warrants a response.

 

[mrsilv04]

Ben-

Another question for you.

Have you heard the noise that the 5.4 makes when it exhibits this condition?

 

[Ben99GT]

I have heard a few piston slapping 5.4s, I have heard 5.4 3Vs with failed cam phasers, I have heard 5.4s with faulty ADBVs, I have heard 5.4s with failed chain tensioners.

I have also heard FAR, FAR more 5.3s with "start up knock"/piston slap than I have heard slapping and/or failed tensioner 5.4s.

 

[mrsilv04]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
Except the 5.3L piston slap is a VERY WELL DOCUMENTED "problem".


Time out, Nick.

The 5.4 knock issue is well documented...

http://www.stangnet.com/images/stories/docs/s197_TSBs/06-19-08.pdf

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/892031-5-4-knocking-on-cold-start-up.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj4pf2qJVVg&feature=related

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/...3v_engines.aspx

http://www.f150forum.com/f11/only-warm-idle-engine-knock-5-4-a-4282/

See for yourself... Google it, and see what comes back... plenty.

 

[Ben99GT]

You do realize half of the links you just posted don't pertain to a "start up knock", right?

The fact remains that cold start knocks are FAR more prevalent on the Gen IIIs. If you can not see by now how your slam on the 5.4 rings hollow, I don't know what else to say to you.

 

[mrsilv04]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I have heard a few piston slapping 5.4s, I have heard 5.4 3Vs with failed cam phasers, I have heard 5.4s with faulty ADBVs, I have heard 5.4s with failed chain tensioners.


But your response to my seeing an '04 and an '05 sitting side by side with this problem was... in your own words...

"Do you often find pots of gold at the end of rainbows or see lightning strike in the same place twice?"

Rainbows, indeed.

I will say that we're making some progress. Apparently, the problem *does* exist now...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Except the 5.3L piston slap is a VERY WELL DOCUMENTED "problem".


Time out, Nick.

The 5.4 knock issue is well documented...

http://www.stangnet.com/images/stories/docs/s197_TSBs/06-19-08.pdf

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/892031-5-4-knocking-on-cold-start-up.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liqWdZ9qgOQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj4pf2qJVVg&feature=related

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/...3v_engines.aspx

http://www.f150forum.com/f11/only-warm-idle-engine-knock-5-4-a-4282/

See for yourself... Google it, and see what comes back... plenty.



The TSB in your first link specifically mentions a tick or LIGHT knock (NOT piston-slap) associated with the VCT phasers. NOWHERE in that article does it make mention of (as you so elequently put it) "does it have oil HAMMERING".

2nd link is forum speculation.

#3 is the typical cam phaser noise. Unlike piston slap... It is fixable.

#4 is a much quieter example of #3.

#5 is cam phasers again and repeats the TSB from #1. And they SPECIFICALLY mention AFTER the vehicle has been running and is up to operating temperature. NOT "start-up noise" (or your choice word: "HAMMERING"). And since the two "examples" you cited were start-up noise, it obviously wasn't this.

#6 same thing.


The ONLY example of start-up noise from ANY of those links was a thread on a Ford forum where somebody recommended Lucas oil stabilizer and a K&N oil filter. Hardly a recipe for any sort of "conclusion".

VCT noise is a REAL issue. There is a TSB about it. Piston slap? Not so much. Which means that START-UP noise that isn't tensioner related (which is another REAL issue, hence the design of the FL-820S) is simply NOT a common problem with this engine.


----------------

I could google GM transmission failures and post you a pile of results. In no way does that mean that GM transmission failures are "common" or GM's are "notorious" for "puking transmissions" as I'm sure you'd word it, given your choice use of the word "hammering" earlier in this thread.

 

[mrsilv04]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
You do realize half of the links you just posted don't pertain to a "start up knock", right?


You didn't know that it isn't just a "start up knock" issue?

Some vehicles equipped with a 4.6L 3-valve or 5.4L 3-valve engine may exhibit a ticking and / or knocking noise after reaching normal operating temperature, or a rattle upon starting. The noise may be described as ticks, taps, knocks, or thumps.

Guess what.... it is more than just a start up issue. You've learned something else today.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
But your response to my seeing an '04 and an '05 sitting side by side with this problem was... in your own words...

"Do you often find pots of gold at the end of rainbows or see lightning strike in the same place twice?"


The odds of you seeing two 5.4s at a random parking lot next to each other, starting up at the same moment and both exhibiting "start up knock" is remote, to say the least. I find your encounter with the "death hammering" 5.4s extremely convenient, hence the comment.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
You do realize half of the links you just posted don't pertain to a "start up knock", right?


You didn't know that it isn't just a "start up knock" issue?

Some vehicles equipped with a 4.6L 3-valve or 5.4L 3-valve engine may exhibit a ticking and / or knocking noise after reaching normal operating temperature, or a rattle upon starting. The noise may be described as ticks, taps, knocks, or thumps.

Guess what.... it is more than just a start up issue. You've learned something else today.

The cam phaser issue is distinctive, and not what you described.

 

[mrsilv04]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

I could google GM transmission failures and post you a pile of results. In no way does that mean that GM transmission failures are "common" or GM's are "notorious" for "puking transmissions" as I'm sure you'd word it, given your choice use of the word "hammering" earlier in this thread.


I'm sure you could dredge up thousands of examples of all of the problems that Government Motors, aka "the welfare company" has. Please do if you'd like, although I'm sure that we've heard about all of them by now... at least once or twice, maybe even three times.

When Ford refers to it as "thumps" or "knocks"... that's more than just "ticks".

 

[mrsilv04]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
The odds of you seeing two 5.4s at a random parking lot next to each other, starting up at the same moment and both exhibiting "start up knock" is remote, to say the least.


Ben... why don't you just cut to the chase and just call me a liar, and get it over with.

Really...

For a couple of guys who make such a big deal about the issues with the 5.3 engine... when the 5.4 also exhibits documented "noisy engine" issues as well.

But the "Welfare Company" is the only one with a problem.

Gotcha.