Snows for a RWD in NJ?

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I live in NE Pennsylvania (Pocono mountains) and use the Hankook W409 iPike winter tires on a RWD Volvo 740:

http://www.hankooktireusa.com/product/tire_detail.asp?pid=910

I have a set of four mounted on an extra set of wheels. The car goes through snow like a mountain goat and they are quiet for snows. I can't say enough about these tires. They have been fantastic.

I got them on line here (cheap) with free shipping:

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct...r%2FPerformance

Andrew S.

'91 Volvo 740
'98 Nissan Quest
 
Originally Posted By: rpn453
Originally Posted By: nj300se
On RWD, does one put snows only on the rear, or is it on all four?


It's safe to go with winter tires only on the rear, but you'll get better traction for braking and steering with four.


No, not after the snow melts you wouldn't.

I joke that guys who want the "ULTIMATE" winter set-up for a road trip (like mine) need to pull a trailer full of tires:

Snows: to get out of the driveway to the plowed secondary roads

All-Seasons: to get up to speed on the secondary roads that have dry patches or are just a lil wet

Performance tires: for the dry highway to get "Ultimate" performance on the dry high-speed highway.

So, yeah. This is what I tell people who argue that all-seasons are bunk and you need snows for "ultimate" performance.

I am usually fine with new all-seasons. I have mounted snows that I use for a week or two a year. Too gummy on the twisties after it dries out. We get only a few BIG snow events a year.
 
I get to work on dry pavement just as fast on snows as I do on summer all-seasons. That's my performance criteria.

Incidentally my low-buck snows are great not just for going and stopping, but for not sliding sideways. This is a performance attribute often overlooked until you're looking at the headlights of the guy behind you through your windshield.
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
"Just as fast on snows as all-season in dry". Man, I hope I don't get stuck behind you.

They may be a little bit squishy and loud, but for basic transportation needs and not performance driving, I don't see how his statement is wrong.

I saw a set of Dunlop Winter Sport M2 tires on a WRX in Berkeley, California. It was technically winter, but our mild Bay Area winters only see snow maybe every 30-40 years, and nothing that all-seasons can't handle. I figure the owner (ski rack on the roof) was driving to the Sierras on a regular basis and didn't feel like taking them off.
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: rpn453
Originally Posted By: nj300se
On RWD, does one put snows only on the rear, or is it on all four?


It's safe to go with winter tires only on the rear, but you'll get better traction for braking and steering with four.


No, not after the snow melts you wouldn't.


That depends on the tire, but a lot of winter tires have very good wet/dry traction. A couple of years ago, Car and Driver compared summer, winter, and all-season tires in snowy, wet, and dry conditions:

Quote:
The most interesting result was that the snow tire performed better on wet asphalt than did the all-season tire. The snow tire stopped sooner — 150 feet versus 155 — and pulled more g — 0.71 versus 0.69. And its 56.60-second run through the wet autocross course was 0.11 second quicker.


The all-season did beat the winter tire on the track when dry, but not by enough to say that driver safety would be jeopardized in any way by using them in summer. Plus, they were up against the V-rated Goodyear RS-A which pulled .87g on the dry skidpad test of my Mazda3. Since performance was so close to that of the RS-As on both dry and wet pavement, they likely performed far better than cheap all-season tires that are good for 0.7g on dry pavement.

The winter tire did get chewed up pretty good at the track.

The acceleration attempt with the F1s on snow is amusing.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/11899/tech-stuff-a-tire-for-all-seasons.html

(yes, this is a cut and paste of a previous post of mine!)
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
From all I've read, RS-As are pretty [censored] tires though. Always come close to last in the rankings.


They're certainly not good value for the money, but I think they'd outperform the inexpensive tires on most of the vehicles driving around right now.
 
Most snows aren't speed rated and RS-As are horrible in wet. lol, the way you guys tell it, it's like; why do they even make all-seasons? For me, snow tires are just that. When the snow is gone, so are the snow tires. What, I wanna burn-up a $500 set of snow tires in one season? Wait, now comes the story of how some guy drove 30k for 5 years, all year, on one set of snow tires.

My participation in this thread is over.

I'll take the Beamer with 2 snows on the back and good all-seosons on front.

The End.
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Most snows aren't speed rated and RS-As are horrible in wet. lol, the way you guys tell it, it's like; why do they even make all-seasons? For me, snow tires are just that. When the snow is gone, so are the snow tires. What, I wanna burn-up a $500 set of snow tires in one season? Wait, now comes the story of how some guy drove 30k for 5 years, all year, on one set of snow tires.

My participation in this thread is over.

I'll take the Beamer with 2 snows on the back and good all-seosons on front.

The End.

I have nothing against all-seasons (I've got a set of Bridgestone RE960AS), but swapping tires is a pain. I haven't really needed snows, but think they might have been helpful in some conditions. I've driven in chain conditions where it varied from heavy snow to wet to bone dry in a matter a five miles of driving. Winter tires really only address the worst case scenario of snow and/or ice but may be forced into use on dry or wet conditions without snow.

If you're talking most reasonably high-performance cars, on might as well use speed rated tires. The Grand Marquis mentioned came with OEM SR speed-rated tires, and I noted several HR and other speed-rated winter tires in the same size on the Tire Rack website. I don't see anyone talking about actually using their winter tires all year. The implication is that they're left on the car during the period of time when they might come in handy. That may include times when the road is dry but sudden snowfall might make winter tires useful.

And the thing about winter tires in wet conditions is that they're typically heavily siped. It should help creating biting edges, but supposedly makes it a little bit squishy. And the soft rubber of most winter tires should be squishy enough.
 
Originally Posted By: rpn453
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
From all I've read, RS-As are pretty [censored] tires though. Always come close to last in the rankings.


They're certainly not good value for the money, but I think they'd outperform the inexpensive tires on most of the vehicles driving around right now.


FWIW, I think that the RSA evaluations are bunk and only reflect OEM tires. We used RSA tires exclusively and I have personally put several hundred thousand miles on sets. I never had any issues, including use in light snow. I got the pleasure of having to work one evening during one of our rare snows. I drove 125 miles that night, mostly on unplowed roads (granted there was only about 6 inches on the ground) and never had an issue with these tires. I have driven thousands of miles in the rain with the RSA and, once again, never had any issues. Can probably point you to the "millions of miles" driven on these tires with very few issues. They didn't last for squat but they performed well enough for what they were. Priced WAY to high for the general consumer though.
 
Well here's my 2 cents.
Thirty years ago I drove rear drive cars and they came from the factory with bias ply tires. One car I got new in mid February so I didn't bother with snows. It drove terrible when it snowed.
I bought rims and snows for the next winter and it drove great except for the fronts having little grip in snow, so steering and braking were not the best. But it would power through the snow real well.
Next car was front drive with radial tires. It was satisfactory in snow.
Next car was another rear drive with radials and it was satisfactory too.
Next car was another rear drive with radials that wasn't so good. The tires were wider, and they wore fast, so each winter for 3 years they were worse than the year before.
I picked up some junk yard rims, put snows on the back (Goodyear F32s, not made any more)and the grip was great. I put all season radials on the front, but they were much narrower, same diameter as the stock tires, and they worked well.
My current vehicle is an all wheel drive SUV with Michelin Pilots on it. I had no intention of putting on snows with AWD.
Well the first snow we had in December, I found them to not be too good, even with AWD. So I bought a set of used "take off" rims through E-Bay, they were a bargain. I went calling around for tires and found I was too late. Everyone was all sold out.
Except for one place, and they were able to get Toyo Open Country winter tires. They were my only choice, I couldn't get anything else.
Well that has turned out good because these tires are really great in deep snow, slush, and wet ice. They work really well.
They have the softer rubber, deeper treads, silica, and ground up walnut shells in the rubber. When I run my hand across the tread, I can feel the grittiness of the tread, and they are stickier.
So I recommend them. Google them to read about them.
But 2 years ago a friend of ours bought steel rims and some Dunlop Graspic snows from Walmart. They weren't expensive, she doesn't have a lot of money to spend and she found the price for 4 rims and tires to be affordable.
They work quite well too. She's happy with her winter drives.
One other tire that is popular here, it works well and isn't expensive, is the Kumho winter tire. A lot of people buy them and are very happy with them in my area.
One more thing, a workmate of mine had a Dodge Dakota truck with sporty tires, and he had trouble in just an inch of snow. So he bought snows.
Just try to get as narrow a tire as you can while keeping to the original diameter if you buy snows. Even wide snows don't work as well as the narrow ones.
 
I feel were due for a bad winter this year, at least in my neck of the woods, we've been lucky the past few years. I'd like to run snows on my RWD Aerostar but don't want to buy 4 tires as suggested by the various tire makers.

Are there any snow tires that can be used with standard steel belted radials up front? I am not looking to buy another 4 tires for winter use. I remember when I first started driving we'd put snow tires on the rear and call it a day.

Frank D
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

Are there any snow tires that can be used with standard steel belted radials up front? I am not looking to buy another 4 tires for winter use. I remember when I first started driving we'd put snow tires on the rear and call it a day.

Frank D


Yes, all of them. :)

Being RWD having more traction in the rear will keep you pointing forward during surprise braking/cornering maneuvers.. And I can see an Aerostar 2wd getting immobilized pretty easily on all-seasons so more traction on the drive axle is nice.

Naturally you don't want any more confidence than you previously had, as your steering will still be the same as it was before.

There's a hill on my way to work that's both steep and steeply crowned. I like to get a bunch of momentum going and then bomb straight up the middle. Good thing there aren't many cars on the road. If I were in my lane I'd be fighting to stay out of the ditch.

Only you know what kinds of fun shape your roads are in. I'd get some cheap snows now, to have on hand, before everyone runs out or you have to buy expensive ones under duress.
 
Thanks for the reply, the Aerostar is pretty lousy in the snow, my 95 Caprice was the worst car I have ever driven in the snow, I sold it. I live on a dead end street and we're the last to see a plow, and when they do plow its a [censored] job!

I am/was always a cautious driver so I don't think I will get crazy with a set of snows. With that in mind will 2 snows in the rear be OK?

Again thanks!
Frank D
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Thanks for the reply, the Aerostar is pretty lousy in the snow, my 95 Caprice was the worst car I have ever driven in the snow, I sold it. I live on a dead end street and we're the last to see a plow, and when they do plow its a [censored] job!

I am/was always a cautious driver so I don't think I will get crazy with a set of snows. With that in mind will 2 snows in the rear be OK?

Again thanks!
Frank D

Tire Rack is showing a closeout on Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50 in one of the '95 Aerostar sizes. $38 each. Other than that, the seem to have either Firestone branded or unbranded Winterforce tires. I think the unbranded versions used to be the only ones.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compare1.j...e=W&search=true

You might be able to live with rears only (the Aerostar is either RWD or AWD guys) but steering could be a problem. I thought the most important thing is that most of your braking occurs from the fronts on any car, so maximizing traction in the fronts could be important. That's why the front brakes are always larger, and sometimes why you see less effective drums only on the rear. I learned this stuff riding a bicycle, where I could brake very effectively using just the front brake (it was tricky not fishtailing though). Braking a little in the rear did tend to prevent fishtailing.
 
Whatever size brakes one has are more than enough going 25-35 in the snow!

What's more important on a non-ABS car is how they're proportioned, if rear heavy you're going to spin (with equal tires), front heavy: plow.

At $38 each, skip a tank of gas for a week, ride your bike, and buy 4 snows.
cheers3.gif
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Whatever size brakes one has are more than enough going 25-35 in the snow!

What's more important on a non-ABS car is how they're proportioned, if rear heavy you're going to spin (with equal tires), front heavy: plow.

At $38 each, skip a tank of gas for a week, ride your bike, and buy 4 snows.
cheers3.gif


My example was just to demonstrate that front brakes are generally where most of the braking action comes from. Of course in snow/ice the tire contact area traction is the most important thing.

I had fun trying to brake in a snow-covered parking lot in Lake Tahoe with a set of supposedly all-season Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S tires. I braked too quickly and sort of floated/squirmed to a stop. Better tires for the snow might have helped. I don't I went more than 5 MPH in that lot.
 
I just took a look at the tires I have on there now and they're Kelly Explorer Tires with a M&S rating? How much better if any are snow tires? I could have sworn they were All Season Tires.

If I am not going to see that much improvement over the tires I already have I might just park this thing next time it snows tell the wife to stay home and use the Jeep.

Thanks,
Frank D
 
All season tires usually do have the M&S rating. It's an old system that went wrong. I mean tires came out with the M&S rating and weren't really as good as they should have been for winter use.
The new system used now is the "snowflake on the mountain" symbol with stricter specs used on real winter tires. Winter tires with that symbol on them really do work better in snow, ice, and slush.
Here's an article about that.
http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=125&currentpage=123
 
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