I love small cars too. I understand what you say. My ideal would be a 4-banger with a stick, but I searched and searched last time I was on the market and couldn't find anything that gave me the same value as the old Grand Marquis. When I bought it, right next to it was an Escort wagon, a car I like, it was newer but it had about 40,000 more miles on it, and it was a grand more! One problem I'm finding is that so many of the small cars now have automatics, which to me is a no go on a small 4-banger.
Small Used Car Market Insane? Agree? Disagree?
- Thread starter javacontour
- Start date
- Status
I'd agree.
But, my Accord doesn't really do much worse than our civic. All highway we get 36 instead of 39. Around town both are/were around 30. And there are plenty of mundane 4cyl family sedans.
What about waiting for gas prices to come down and suv sales to rise in the fall?
But, my Accord doesn't really do much worse than our civic. All highway we get 36 instead of 39. Around town both are/were around 30. And there are plenty of mundane 4cyl family sedans.
What about waiting for gas prices to come down and suv sales to rise in the fall?
I paid $2,500 for a 2001 Dodge Neon.
Spent a few dollars getting maintenance back into shape and getting items repaired. Got to be prepared for that with any used car one purchases.
Also had a few oil analysis reports done and know the engine is wearing well with no apparent issues.
Spent a few dollars getting maintenance back into shape and getting items repaired. Got to be prepared for that with any used car one purchases.
Also had a few oil analysis reports done and know the engine is wearing well with no apparent issues.
I'm about 100 miles north of a more populous, more prosperous, less rusty place. Best truck I ever bought came from Lynn, MA. Local geography plays a role; there are a lot of lazy people who only buy within their town. Or they go to a string of dealerships (an "automile") where they compete amongst themselves but all have high real estate and other overhead expenses.
A good private party buy is from someone who pays cash for new and therefore offers the dealer nowhere to squeeze upon trade in time. Insulted by the trade in offer they put the car up on craigslist. As few bumpkins around here seem able to scrape up $2200 for a 90k mile car and used sellers don't finance, this creates a great opportunity for someone with a savings account.
I have a very pretty saturn that just passed state inspection, when the title shows up it's going on craigslist for $1200. If prior experience is any indicator I'll get few if any nibbles-- but if I drop the price to 1000 I'll catch everyone who sets the search filter to 1000. This is the first automatic I've had in a while and I think from a selling viewpoint this is a plus-- but an experiment I'll report back on.
PS the $1000 crowd usually doesn't open the hood or look underneath!
It's almost like some super-nearsighted "mole people" that pop up!
A good private party buy is from someone who pays cash for new and therefore offers the dealer nowhere to squeeze upon trade in time. Insulted by the trade in offer they put the car up on craigslist. As few bumpkins around here seem able to scrape up $2200 for a 90k mile car and used sellers don't finance, this creates a great opportunity for someone with a savings account.
I have a very pretty saturn that just passed state inspection, when the title shows up it's going on craigslist for $1200. If prior experience is any indicator I'll get few if any nibbles-- but if I drop the price to 1000 I'll catch everyone who sets the search filter to 1000. This is the first automatic I've had in a while and I think from a selling viewpoint this is a plus-- but an experiment I'll report back on.
PS the $1000 crowd usually doesn't open the hood or look underneath!
Back to the whole craigslist thing. There is a whole lot of junk where folks are asking top dollar retail.
We could visit that thread again.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1819700#Post1819700
We could visit that thread again.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1819700#Post1819700
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
The economy wont go anywhere until we bring manufacturing back to the USA.
Will not happen.
We will not work for reasonable wages that other countries will work for since they don't have the garbage to deal with that is dealt to businesses in the US.
And we can not force other countries to be like US.. (over tax and all the "rules") They need to feed their people.
Add in that US consumers can not afford to pay now for products that are made with lower priced labor and lower priced plants.
They can not pay anymore...
Bill
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
The economy wont go anywhere until we bring manufacturing back to the USA.
Will not happen.
We will not work for reasonable wages that other countries will work for since they don't have the garbage to deal with that is dealt to businesses in the US.
And we can not force other countries to be like US.. (over tax and all the "rules") They need to feed their people.
Add in that US consumers can not afford to pay now for products that are made with lower priced labor and lower priced plants.
They can not pay anymore...
Bill
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
It WILL only get worst with the fuel going up and up.
If "people" get their wish of $7 a gallon the insane cost of 4 cyl cars will be the LEAST of our worries.
Hold on, its only going to get WAY WORST... (sorry to say)
Bill
Bill: I don't see gas going to those prices anytime soon. I do feel we'll see the usual 50 cents to a dollar a gallon increase for summer but I also see it retreating to current levels or lower by next winter. Why, you may ask...simply because the economy is so bad that people will cut way back on driving rather than pay the exorbitant prices. The current administration is doing nothing that will help the economy anytime soon.
Agree 100%. The economy is going NOWHERE.
20% unemployment means 80% still have a job. So long as there is room on their credit card????
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
It WILL only get worst with the fuel going up and up.
If "people" get their wish of $7 a gallon the insane cost of 4 cyl cars will be the LEAST of our worries.
Hold on, its only going to get WAY WORST... (sorry to say)
Bill
Bill: I don't see gas going to those prices anytime soon. I do feel we'll see the usual 50 cents to a dollar a gallon increase for summer but I also see it retreating to current levels or lower by next winter. Why, you may ask...simply because the economy is so bad that people will cut way back on driving rather than pay the exorbitant prices. The current administration is doing nothing that will help the economy anytime soon.
Agree 100%. The economy is going NOWHERE.
20% unemployment means 80% still have a job. So long as there is room on their credit card????
And now you see the issue.
It may be worth $4K to him, but you are only willing to buy such a car for $2500. If he think he could get the $4K selling, then that's what he's trying to get.
He may get it. Someone may fall in love with an '02 Cavalier and drop $4k on it.
Reminds me of when my sister went to sell the '66 Nova she and I drove when we were teens.
Our family bought it in 1972 for $400. I drove it as a teen from 1981 until 1985. I wrecked it once, got a check from the other driver's insurance co for $500. I pulled the radiator out and had it fixed, bought a new hose and left the dent in the front bumper. We pocketed the rest of the money.
She drove it after I bought a '75 Buick. She ran it out of oil twice. (It was a check the gas and fill the oil kind of car by 1985.) She bought a 1970's Dodge with a 440V8 and put the Nova up for sale for $100.
Had 20 some folks call for it, rusting, oil burning and all. The first guy tried to talk her down. She showed him the list of folks who called and left messages.
He gave her the $100 and she signed the title over to him.
If there is a demand, the price will hold.
So if there is a demand for $4K '02 Cavaliers, then he could get $4K.
Apparently in 1985 or '86, there was a demand for rusty, oil burning '66 4-door Nova's at $100.
It may be worth $4K to him, but you are only willing to buy such a car for $2500. If he think he could get the $4K selling, then that's what he's trying to get.
He may get it. Someone may fall in love with an '02 Cavalier and drop $4k on it.
Reminds me of when my sister went to sell the '66 Nova she and I drove when we were teens.
Our family bought it in 1972 for $400. I drove it as a teen from 1981 until 1985. I wrecked it once, got a check from the other driver's insurance co for $500. I pulled the radiator out and had it fixed, bought a new hose and left the dent in the front bumper. We pocketed the rest of the money.
She drove it after I bought a '75 Buick. She ran it out of oil twice. (It was a check the gas and fill the oil kind of car by 1985.) She bought a 1970's Dodge with a 440V8 and put the Nova up for sale for $100.
Had 20 some folks call for it, rusting, oil burning and all. The first guy tried to talk her down. She showed him the list of folks who called and left messages.
He gave her the $100 and she signed the title over to him.
If there is a demand, the price will hold.
So if there is a demand for $4K '02 Cavaliers, then he could get $4K.
Apparently in 1985 or '86, there was a demand for rusty, oil burning '66 4-door Nova's at $100.
Originally Posted By: addyguy
$4k for an '02 Cavalier???
I drive one of those! Get real, bud, it's worth $2500, at most!
Ya better check Auto Trader, overall avg. within 100 miles of me is $4569.00. That is a fact, not an opinion.
Go out another 100 miles, 200 total, avg. price goes to $4710.
This is giving the benifite of the doubt as using years 2001 to 2002.
$4k for an '02 Cavalier???
I drive one of those! Get real, bud, it's worth $2500, at most!
Ya better check Auto Trader, overall avg. within 100 miles of me is $4569.00. That is a fact, not an opinion.
Go out another 100 miles, 200 total, avg. price goes to $4710.
This is giving the benifite of the doubt as using years 2001 to 2002.
That's avg asking. Auto trader doesn't tell you average selling price.
Like I said, folks ask insane prices.
Edmunds gathers data on cars actually sold, and comes up with the following on a 2 Door '02 Cavalier LS with stick, 94K miles and I added the AM/FM/Cassette as an option:
Trade In: $2,283
Private Party Sale: $3,147
Dealer Retail Sale: $3,999
That was for a condition of clean. There may be a few outstanding cars out there, but few are. Most are below outstanding:
Quote:
1. Outstanding: Exceptional mechanical, exterior and interior condition; requires no reconditioning.
2. Clean: Some normal wear but no major mechanical or cosmetic problems; may require limited reconditioning.
3. Average: May have a few mechanical and/or cosmetic problems and may require a considerable amount of reconditioning.
4. Rough: Several mechanical and/or cosmetic problems requiring significant repairs.
5. Damaged: Major mechanical and/or body damage that may render it in non-safe running condition.
Folks advertise "Outstanding" but are typically selling Average or below cars. If the car really was outstanding, why are they selling it?
Like I said, folks ask insane prices.
Edmunds gathers data on cars actually sold, and comes up with the following on a 2 Door '02 Cavalier LS with stick, 94K miles and I added the AM/FM/Cassette as an option:
Trade In: $2,283
Private Party Sale: $3,147
Dealer Retail Sale: $3,999
That was for a condition of clean. There may be a few outstanding cars out there, but few are. Most are below outstanding:
Quote:
1. Outstanding: Exceptional mechanical, exterior and interior condition; requires no reconditioning.
2. Clean: Some normal wear but no major mechanical or cosmetic problems; may require limited reconditioning.
3. Average: May have a few mechanical and/or cosmetic problems and may require a considerable amount of reconditioning.
4. Rough: Several mechanical and/or cosmetic problems requiring significant repairs.
5. Damaged: Major mechanical and/or body damage that may render it in non-safe running condition.
Folks advertise "Outstanding" but are typically selling Average or below cars. If the car really was outstanding, why are they selling it?
First of all, anyone who pays anywhere near KBB or Edmunds pricing for a used car is insane. Those prices are inlfated. Start at the trade in value for a really clean car as your max. price to pay. Sure, sellers want more, but realistically that's all they're going to get in most cases. Same with dealer cars. I would never pay more than the book trade in value, but that's why I usually buy cars from individuals. You just have to be a bit patient, have cash ready, and be willing to wait some people out.
One other thing is that part of this can be blamed on cash for clunkers. A lot of perfectly decent cheap used cars were taken off the market. This wiped out the low end of the market, so we have to be a bit patient until today's "run's great, lightly used" becomes tomorrow's "must sell, make offer."
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
One other thing is that part of this can be blamed on cash for clunkers. A lot of perfectly decent cheap used cars were taken off the market. This wiped out the low end of the market, so we have to be a bit patient until today's "run's great, lightly used" becomes tomorrow's "must sell, make offer."
Small cars didn't qualify for CFC.
One other thing is that part of this can be blamed on cash for clunkers. A lot of perfectly decent cheap used cars were taken off the market. This wiped out the low end of the market, so we have to be a bit patient until today's "run's great, lightly used" becomes tomorrow's "must sell, make offer."
Small cars didn't qualify for CFC.
Even though small cars didn't qualify, there was a knock-on effect in just shrinking the overall pool of cheap cars out there. There is more pressure on the cheap cars that remain, no matter what the size. Craigslist is full of pleas from folks searching for someone to offer them a decent working car at a low price to get to work.
All I have to say is that my cavalier hasn't had too many problems over it's lifetime. The big one was the transmission at 120k miles, and it's not a huge surprise to me, considering he didn't get the fluid changed till after 100k miles.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,799
Quote:
nd now you see the issue.
It may be worth $4K to him, but you are only willing to buy such a car for $2500. If he think he could get the $4K selling, then that's what he's trying to get.
He may get it. Someone may fall in love with an '02 Cavalier and drop $4k on it.
People can be blind and impulsive. They don't do a cost analysis like you have. During the first oil embargo people traded in perfectly good Oldsmobile and Buick models for better fuel economy, losing thousands, and all for the cost of a pizza a week in fuel savings ...many times that in payments.
The worries in pumping money into an older chassis are collision (if you're a tightwad, you probably don't have it) and theft/parts stripping (chop shop city midnight auto).
My son's 96 NEON looks like an urban warfare survivor, but shares so many basic drive train components over enough years to have lots of availability in the junkyards. Once I get in the thing it's actually not too bad at all ..and, yes, the AC still works.
nd now you see the issue.
It may be worth $4K to him, but you are only willing to buy such a car for $2500. If he think he could get the $4K selling, then that's what he's trying to get.
He may get it. Someone may fall in love with an '02 Cavalier and drop $4k on it.
People can be blind and impulsive. They don't do a cost analysis like you have. During the first oil embargo people traded in perfectly good Oldsmobile and Buick models for better fuel economy, losing thousands, and all for the cost of a pizza a week in fuel savings ...many times that in payments.
The worries in pumping money into an older chassis are collision (if you're a tightwad, you probably don't have it) and theft/parts stripping (chop shop city midnight auto).
My son's 96 NEON looks like an urban warfare survivor, but shares so many basic drive train components over enough years to have lots of availability in the junkyards. Once I get in the thing it's actually not too bad at all ..and, yes, the AC still works.
I think small used cars generally sell for too much here too. It has been that way for a while. I looked at used cars before I bought my Mazda3 in '04, but the asking prices were ridiculous. If a car's value isn't depreciated at least 13% per year/20k km (for a mint, non-eastern car), I'll buy new instead. No point in giving the original owner the early years of the car's life for the same price as the later years.
My big gray beast, the Buick, gets 20-22 mpg in my usual weekly driving, about 80% city, on regular. Plus it's paid for, and drives like a much younger car. I'll spend the dough on the dreaded intake manifold gaskets -- maybe even this week -- and cruise on. If we do get a spike in gas prices this summer, I'm ready.
- Status
