4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Only have wheelers … have holsters for a couple but don’t wear them … more like a protective sleeve …
Sig Sauer P320 - Self Discharge Reports
- Thread starter ZeeOSix
- Start date
- Status
DAO weapon. Hammer fired. No manual safety.
Magazine inserted. Round chambered. Goes into holster in that condition.
Holster put on belt and removed from belt with weapon untouched.
Department SOP.
The weapon is ONLY to be loaded/unloaded at a range or in a clearing barrel.
Magazine inserted. Round chambered. Goes into holster in that condition.
Holster put on belt and removed from belt with weapon untouched.
Department SOP.
The weapon is ONLY to be loaded/unloaded at a range or in a clearing barrel.
Last edited:
At #64 and #94 the complaint alleges that there are body cam or other security video footage of P320's just going off in a holster without any operator command or handling. I spent a few minutes on Google looking for these videos, but couldn't find them.
Regardless, this gun began its life as a defective weapon ( in my opinion ) and is still generating too many complaints even after being upgraded. Some of the incidents alleged do sound shaky, but as a litigator friend of mine once said: "They can't all be pilot error." Same principle here.
"64. For example, in February of 2016, a fully-holstered P320 discharged without a trigger pull inside a Roscommon, Michigan police officer’s vehicle when the officer moved to exit the vehicle during a snowstorm. The incident was captured on the officer’s body cam video (fn. 3 above) and shows that no object entered his holster at any time. "
94. In August of 2019, a Philadelphia transit officer’s upgraded P320 fired un-commanded while fully-holstered, nearly striking a bystander in the subway. The incident was captured on video, it shows an “upgraded” P320 firing without the gun ever being touched and seated inside its holster. ....
Regardless, this gun began its life as a defective weapon ( in my opinion ) and is still generating too many complaints even after being upgraded. Some of the incidents alleged do sound shaky, but as a litigator friend of mine once said: "They can't all be pilot error." Same principle here.
VIDEO: Holstered Pistol Discharges... Negligent or Accident? - The Truth About Guns
◀Previous Post Next Post▶ This video was submitted anonymously by a reader in Nevada. It shows a firearm that had been holstered discharging when the carrier bent over to pick something up. We’re told that the gun in question was a GLOCK 43. The holster was a GCode INCOG. The bullet...
www.thetruthaboutguns.com
Is this the fault of the gun or owner?
He can claim he didnt touch trigger.
That is painful to watch. But I can’t tell what happened.
VIDEO: Holstered Pistol Discharges... Negligent or Accident? - The Truth About Guns
◀Previous Post Next Post▶ This video was submitted anonymously by a reader in Nevada. It shows a firearm that had been holstered discharging when the carrier bent over to pick something up. We’re told that the gun in question was a GLOCK 43. The holster was a GCode INCOG. The bullet...
Is this the fault of the gun or owner?
He can claim he didnt touch trigger.
Anyone that has at least one functional eye can see his hands were nowhere even close to the holstered pistol.
Are you suggesting that Glocks are defective, too?
This is why holstering and unholstering, along with loading and unloading, need to be taken very seriously and deliberately. He loads the gun, then slides it into the holster already in his belt/pants.
I can see where his hands were, but I can’t tell where the gun was in relation to the holster, or his clothing.
His hands may not have pressed the trigger, but if he didn’t get the gun seated, and it slipped up during his moving the holster, then was pressed back into the holster by his bending over, then the trigger, including the Glock safety on the trigger, could have been pressed by a collapsed bit of holster, or his trapped shirt. That has happened many times with Glocks and other firearms.
It is not a design defect of the gun. It went off when the trigger was depressed, just as it was designed to do.
This is a defect in handling a firearm, including the care with which it was holstered, and how that holster was donned. Perhaps a holster design issue as well.
It’s impossible to see how the gun was holstered and how the holster was put on, thus impossible to know what happened.
This is why holstering and unholstering, along with loading and unloading, need to be taken very seriously and deliberately. He loads the gun, then slides it into the holster already in his belt/pants.
I can see where his hands were, but I can’t tell where the gun was in relation to the holster, or his clothing.
His hands may not have pressed the trigger, but if he didn’t get the gun seated, and it slipped up during his moving the holster, then was pressed back into the holster by his bending over, then the trigger, including the Glock safety on the trigger, could have been pressed by a collapsed bit of holster, or his trapped shirt. That has happened many times with Glocks and other firearms.
It is not a design defect of the gun. It went off when the trigger was depressed, just as it was designed to do.
This is a defect in handling a firearm, including the care with which it was holstered, and how that holster was donned. Perhaps a holster design issue as well.
It’s impossible to see how the gun was holstered and how the holster was put on, thus impossible to know what happened.
Last edited:
What I found interesting in the video was that the military demanded that Sig Sauer change much of the internal components design of the military version of the P320 (the M17) because of issues they discovered. Also at time 9:00, the comment about the super small engagement area between the sear and firing pin. Obviously, if a gun is going to fire, the firing pin needs to hit the primer. So if the firing pin is suddenly being released without a trigger pull then what's causing it to disengage with the sear.
Like mentioned earlier, if there is some parts manufacturing tolerance stack-up in the wrong direction, maybe it's possible for the sear to disengage the firing pin under certain conditions, like when the slide moves/wiggles around on the frame when in a holster and the holster is moved around in certain ways.
Last edited:
You're reading between the lines, I simply said his hands were no where near the gun. However, I do find it pretty hard to visialize how a trigger is going to be fully moved back enough to fire the pistol - what's the total trigger travel required for that gun to fire? Holsters are smooth inside, they don't have appendages that can get inside a trigger guard and manipulate a trigger like a finger would, which is what would have to happen since the Glock has a drop safety type of trigger design.
Last edited:
VIDEO: Holstered Pistol Discharges... Negligent or Accident? - The Truth About Guns
◀Previous Post Next Post▶ This video was submitted anonymously by a reader in Nevada. It shows a firearm that had been holstered discharging when the carrier bent over to pick something up. We’re told that the gun in question was a GLOCK 43. The holster was a GCode INCOG. The bullet...
After watching that video again a few times: 1) He didn't "jamb" the pistol into the holster, and it looked fully seated into the holster. 2) The pistol could not have moved inside the holster at all until he bent over. So how is the trigger going to get fully activated like a finger was pulling it, even if the pistol slide up out of the holster even half way?
It's more likely that the pistol got some kind of weird stress put on it from bending over to make the slide and frame move in such a way as to release the firing mechanism. I'd bet there is no testing of this kind of manipulation forces/stress put on firearms to check for firing mechanism safety integrity.
Is there anymore info on this indent that found the actual cause of the discharge since it did happen a few years ago.
Last edited:
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.
That was illustrated in the video but I didn't call it out for the other reason yesterday. ( notice the part where they said the disconnector wont go down)
Its an inherent design requirement for a weapon with a striker ( where the inertia device is in the carrier) that a hammer weapon is not subject to. Its somewhat of a "necessary evil" for any weapon where the inertia device/main spring is physically decoupled from direct trigger engagement.
The trigger arc doesn't do anything but cam the sear down until disengagement but ANYTHING (gravity, combined tolerance, shock, short cycling) can set it up for a false fire.
That contact area is slim to begin with and if it short cycles (in travel) of the slide is shocked at the right angle- it will turn loose and fire.
That's why they tell you not to mess with the springs or attempt to tune weapons like this.
No maybe to it.
I know a guy, personally, he was my neighbor, who had a Glock go off from the holster contacting the trigger. His left hand was on the steering wheel of his vehicle. He palmed the slide of the Glock (which had come loose on rough roads) and pushed it back in. The gun fired because the trigger was pressed by the holster. The bullet grazed his thigh, then went through the vehicle seat and his foot.
Holster 100% at fault. He was a highly trained veteran who was injured while working as a security guard at a very secure government location. On the job injury.
Holster 100% at fault. He was a highly trained veteran who was injured while working as a security guard at a very secure government location. On the job injury.
That's right
If you don't have a lever with a physical striker lock ( or similar) there is little to be done to manage this condition.
On a side note,just what is the reason a civillian "needs" to carry in condition 0? Ego?
I carried for 30 years with 2 incidents, and the only time I ever carried in condition1/0 was during the LA riots in 92 when my business was looted and firebombed and I had to get my employees to the remote parking lot without being murdered. The other time I had a wheel gun.
Seaching for your femur fragments and balls while wondering what happened is just completely unnnecesary.
I just dont get it...its just too risky.
Heres a pict from that long night in 92...
I carried for 30 years with 2 incidents, and the only time I ever carried in condition1/0 was during the LA riots in 92 when my business was looted and firebombed and I had to get my employees to the remote parking lot without being murdered. The other time I had a wheel gun.
Seaching for your femur fragments and balls while wondering what happened is just completely unnnecesary.
I just dont get it...its just too risky.
Heres a pict from that long night in 92...
I’m not a fan of appendix carry for, well, the reason here, you’ve got a gun pointed at YOUR body.
But I am also not a fan of carrying an unloaded gun, or a gun that needs to be cocked to be put in use. The second you spend racking a slide, or cocking a hammer, is a second that the bad guy has to close the distance, assault you, or just plain shoot you.
A gun that isn’t ready to go as you draw is a gun that may not work in time.
Leaving the chamber empty, or the hammer uncocked on a Single Action, on your defensive weapon, and thinking, “I’ll rack/cock it if I need to” is a lot like leaving your seatbelt unbuckled and thinking, “I’ll buckle it up if I need to.”
But I am also not a fan of carrying an unloaded gun, or a gun that needs to be cocked to be put in use. The second you spend racking a slide, or cocking a hammer, is a second that the bad guy has to close the distance, assault you, or just plain shoot you.
A gun that isn’t ready to go as you draw is a gun that may not work in time.
Leaving the chamber empty, or the hammer uncocked on a Single Action, on your defensive weapon, and thinking, “I’ll rack/cock it if I need to” is a lot like leaving your seatbelt unbuckled and thinking, “I’ll buckle it up if I need to.”
While this debate goes on Sig is moving to a larger facility in Rochester NH because of demand. No implication from yours truly here.
- Status
