I know how you feel. I don't know what is better for the economy: better products/higher costs/ buy less often or low grade products/cheap costs/ buy more often? I would prefer the former. Except for medicine, Tim Horton's coffee and cars, I wish I could have been born in the late 1920's era. I would appreciate the quality of products, simpler lifestyle, architecture of buldings , and almost forgot the steam locomotive era's pinnacle. Instead I was born in 1967. Buy it today, junk it tomorrow. Repeat.........
Sick of the quality of new products
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Originally Posted By: BISCUT
The Monogram fridge and microwave have been huge POS. Fridge especially. 4 repairs and still has issues.
I fixed the Monogram fridge myself after two "engineers" came out.
Don't tell me, the crisper and meat drawers are freezing over?
The Monogram fridge and microwave have been huge POS. Fridge especially. 4 repairs and still has issues.
I fixed the Monogram fridge myself after two "engineers" came out.
Don't tell me, the crisper and meat drawers are freezing over?
Originally Posted By: Trav
You singing to the choir! Americans in particular have come to accept this cheap garbage as the norm.
They also created it. we shop at Walmart demanding to save a few pennies on our groceries, so Walmart demands lower prices from suppliers and pays the employees less. Instead of supporting local business that sell quality products, we shop on line for the best deal. Never thinking about quality, just price. In our never ending quest to save money, we buy inferior products made in china just to save a few bucks instead of spending a few more dollars up front to buy quality merchandise. We asked for it, and they gave it to us.
You singing to the choir! Americans in particular have come to accept this cheap garbage as the norm.
They also created it. we shop at Walmart demanding to save a few pennies on our groceries, so Walmart demands lower prices from suppliers and pays the employees less. Instead of supporting local business that sell quality products, we shop on line for the best deal. Never thinking about quality, just price. In our never ending quest to save money, we buy inferior products made in china just to save a few bucks instead of spending a few more dollars up front to buy quality merchandise. We asked for it, and they gave it to us.
In some ways yes but when the likes of Walmart and other chains that we don't mind as much weren't around, small business were taking advantage of their power.
I went to India last year and people were saying a real simple thing about why they would go to Walmart which was to do with being able to make returns without any problem.
The newcomer is always offering something better for the consumer at that point in time, otherwise they wouldn't have succeeded.
The other day, a local restaurant, and this has happened a lot with various places near me, substituted an item without telling me. They didn't tell me when I ordered it, they didn't call back when they found out, they didn't tell me when I picked up the item. And they weren't willing to do anything about it.
Vehicle wise, you have excellent redress with outfits like Discount Tire. They're interested in the long term relationship. Funny how small businesses in the community want the community relationship to be one way.
I went to India last year and people were saying a real simple thing about why they would go to Walmart which was to do with being able to make returns without any problem.
The newcomer is always offering something better for the consumer at that point in time, otherwise they wouldn't have succeeded.
The other day, a local restaurant, and this has happened a lot with various places near me, substituted an item without telling me. They didn't tell me when I ordered it, they didn't call back when they found out, they didn't tell me when I picked up the item. And they weren't willing to do anything about it.
Vehicle wise, you have excellent redress with outfits like Discount Tire. They're interested in the long term relationship. Funny how small businesses in the community want the community relationship to be one way.
Originally Posted By: 71Chevyguy
Anything you buy nowadays is just junk.
But what about the quality of Permatex Right Stuff?
I got several questions waiting for you in the other thread.
Anything you buy nowadays is just junk.
But what about the quality of Permatex Right Stuff?
I got several questions waiting for you in the other thread.
Originally Posted By: 71Chevyguy
... those used to go when you pushed the gas instead of thinking about whether they should or maybe shouldn't...
So true about many modern vehicles.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
... The [dishwasher] manual goes on to say you need 120 degree water going in, b/c it sure isn't going to heat it much itself and void its pledge to save energy. Supposedly if you give it cold water it goes on strike...
I agree that this one is stupid. Isn't there a heater in the dishwasher? So use that heater to get it hot enough! But no, you must run the hot water all through your house (straight down the drain goes the clean warm water while people do that) to get hot water to the dishwasher. And it's near pointless anyway, because when it comes to the second fill (when the real washing takes place) that hot water in the pipes has cooled down again.
The occasions when I use a 'dishwasher' I load it up and have it wait while I wash the remaining unsuitable items by hand to get the 'hot' water to the 'dishwasher' as they call it.
... those used to go when you pushed the gas instead of thinking about whether they should or maybe shouldn't...
Originally Posted By: eljefino
... The [dishwasher] manual goes on to say you need 120 degree water going in, b/c it sure isn't going to heat it much itself and void its pledge to save energy. Supposedly if you give it cold water it goes on strike...
I agree that this one is stupid. Isn't there a heater in the dishwasher? So use that heater to get it hot enough! But no, you must run the hot water all through your house (straight down the drain goes the clean warm water while people do that) to get hot water to the dishwasher. And it's near pointless anyway, because when it comes to the second fill (when the real washing takes place) that hot water in the pipes has cooled down again.
The occasions when I use a 'dishwasher' I load it up and have it wait while I wash the remaining unsuitable items by hand to get the 'hot' water to the 'dishwasher' as they call it.
I find researching thoroughly before buying a $5 item or a $15,000 helps immensely w/ the quality and longevity of a product. Reading reviews on a product on internet forums helps a great deal too. You can't fix buying a lemon though.
Generally speaking, a quality product will cost more initially but the quality and longevity will more than pay for itself in the long run. If the company knows it built a good product they should stand behind it with a good warranty.
For example I must have gone through a dozen leather wallets from the 80s, 90s and early 00s. In 2005 I learned about a leather company called Saddleback. Let me tell you this wallet is made to last a lifetime and if it doesn't you get a 100 year warranty to get a new one. Fast forward 8 years later and my Saddleback bifold wallet is barely broken in. This $40+ wallet was the best wallet I should have bought several decades ago.
Likewise I prefer all my luggage and travel gear to be Red Oxx and Eagle Creek because of their no questions asked lifetime warranty and I have made several warranty claims with both companies.
In short research, buy quality, and quality should come with a warranty and excellent customer service.
Generally speaking, a quality product will cost more initially but the quality and longevity will more than pay for itself in the long run. If the company knows it built a good product they should stand behind it with a good warranty.
For example I must have gone through a dozen leather wallets from the 80s, 90s and early 00s. In 2005 I learned about a leather company called Saddleback. Let me tell you this wallet is made to last a lifetime and if it doesn't you get a 100 year warranty to get a new one. Fast forward 8 years later and my Saddleback bifold wallet is barely broken in. This $40+ wallet was the best wallet I should have bought several decades ago.
Likewise I prefer all my luggage and travel gear to be Red Oxx and Eagle Creek because of their no questions asked lifetime warranty and I have made several warranty claims with both companies.
In short research, buy quality, and quality should come with a warranty and excellent customer service.
I'm lucky to have most, if not all, appliances lasted long long time with minimum or no repair.
The previous dish washer when we moved into the house in 1997 was at the very least more than 10 years old, it was broken about 4-5 years ago so it lasted more than 20 years. It was replaced with el-cheapo Sears unit for less than $200 with simple manual control. The new one is quiet and do the cleaning very well.
The front load cloth washer is LG I bought 3 years ago to replace the 12 years old front load Whirlpool, more than 10 year of use isn't bad. I bought LG this time because of the various rebates, so the final cost was about $230-250. The dryer is till working well after 15 years, the cloth come out dry and minimum wrinkle.
The new bottom freezer Maytag replaced the old one after 11-12 years in service, again I bought this frig mainly because of rebates, the final cost was less than $500 for a 25 cf frig isn't bad at all.
The gas water heater was installed 8-9 years ago to replace the 30+ year old heater, never do anything to it not even flush the tank. At about the same time I replaced the electric cook-top with gas with the same brand Thermador. It is working as well as could be.
In general, I don't have any problem with all my appliances, big or small. The toaster oven and the espresso machine are working as new after 6-8 years.
Sometimes you need some luck to have parts/appliances that don't quit on you.
The previous dish washer when we moved into the house in 1997 was at the very least more than 10 years old, it was broken about 4-5 years ago so it lasted more than 20 years. It was replaced with el-cheapo Sears unit for less than $200 with simple manual control. The new one is quiet and do the cleaning very well.
The front load cloth washer is LG I bought 3 years ago to replace the 12 years old front load Whirlpool, more than 10 year of use isn't bad. I bought LG this time because of the various rebates, so the final cost was about $230-250. The dryer is till working well after 15 years, the cloth come out dry and minimum wrinkle.
The new bottom freezer Maytag replaced the old one after 11-12 years in service, again I bought this frig mainly because of rebates, the final cost was less than $500 for a 25 cf frig isn't bad at all.
The gas water heater was installed 8-9 years ago to replace the 30+ year old heater, never do anything to it not even flush the tank. At about the same time I replaced the electric cook-top with gas with the same brand Thermador. It is working as well as could be.
In general, I don't have any problem with all my appliances, big or small. The toaster oven and the espresso machine are working as new after 6-8 years.
Sometimes you need some luck to have parts/appliances that don't quit on you.
Originally Posted By: GenSan
I find researching thoroughly before buying a $5 item or a $15,000 helps immensely w/ the quality and longevity of a product. Reading reviews on a product on internet forums helps a great deal too. You can't fix buying a lemon though.
Generally speaking, a quality product will cost more initially but the quality and longevity will more than pay for itself in the long run. If the company knows it built a good product they should stand behind it with a good warranty.
+1
I have found that it is more important than ever, to thoroughly research your purchases. By doing so, I have had very, very few purchases in the last 5 years that have performed differently than expected.
I have also found that the Country of Origin has little effect on the product's performance. As long as you are purchasing a quality product from a reputable manufacturer, this Country of Origin should not make a difference. I have had no unexpected issues with off-shore products.
I find researching thoroughly before buying a $5 item or a $15,000 helps immensely w/ the quality and longevity of a product. Reading reviews on a product on internet forums helps a great deal too. You can't fix buying a lemon though.
Generally speaking, a quality product will cost more initially but the quality and longevity will more than pay for itself in the long run. If the company knows it built a good product they should stand behind it with a good warranty.
+1
I have found that it is more important than ever, to thoroughly research your purchases. By doing so, I have had very, very few purchases in the last 5 years that have performed differently than expected.
I have also found that the Country of Origin has little effect on the product's performance. As long as you are purchasing a quality product from a reputable manufacturer, this Country of Origin should not make a difference. I have had no unexpected issues with off-shore products.
Originally Posted By: BearZDefect
Originally Posted By: eljefino
... The [dishwasher] manual goes on to say you need 120 degree water going in, b/c it sure isn't going to heat it much itself and void its pledge to save energy. Supposedly if you give it cold water it goes on strike...
I agree that this one is stupid. Isn't there a heater in the dishwasher? So use that heater to get it hot enough! But no, you must run the hot water all through your house (straight down the drain goes the clean warm water while people do that) to get hot water to the dishwasher. And it's near pointless anyway, because when it comes to the second fill (when the real washing takes place) that hot water in the pipes has cooled down again.
The occasions when I use a 'dishwasher' I load it up and have it wait while I wash the remaining unsuitable items by hand to get the 'hot' water to the 'dishwasher' as they call it.
Yup, that's my plan... pots & pans at the end of the loading phase.
Also my dishwasher has a 4 hour delay start which I could use for "off peak power metering" overnight but it would get pretty chilly hot water.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
... The [dishwasher] manual goes on to say you need 120 degree water going in, b/c it sure isn't going to heat it much itself and void its pledge to save energy. Supposedly if you give it cold water it goes on strike...
I agree that this one is stupid. Isn't there a heater in the dishwasher? So use that heater to get it hot enough! But no, you must run the hot water all through your house (straight down the drain goes the clean warm water while people do that) to get hot water to the dishwasher. And it's near pointless anyway, because when it comes to the second fill (when the real washing takes place) that hot water in the pipes has cooled down again.
The occasions when I use a 'dishwasher' I load it up and have it wait while I wash the remaining unsuitable items by hand to get the 'hot' water to the 'dishwasher' as they call it.
Yup, that's my plan... pots & pans at the end of the loading phase.
Also my dishwasher has a 4 hour delay start which I could use for "off peak power metering" overnight but it would get pretty chilly hot water.
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Originally Posted By: S65AMG
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
The Monogram fridge and microwave have been huge POS. Fridge especially. 4 repairs and still has issues.
I fixed the Monogram fridge myself after two "engineers" came out.
Don't tell me, the crisper and meat drawers are freezing over?
Ice maker 2x's -- even after the whole unit repalced; and temp will not remain at 37 keeps going lower and lower ... wants to freeze everything.
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
The Monogram fridge and microwave have been huge POS. Fridge especially. 4 repairs and still has issues.
I fixed the Monogram fridge myself after two "engineers" came out.
Don't tell me, the crisper and meat drawers are freezing over?
Ice maker 2x's -- even after the whole unit repalced; and temp will not remain at 37 keeps going lower and lower ... wants to freeze everything.
I know a guy who worked for Hoover, and said he was involved with lifetime testing of their vacuum cleaners. Not to increase their lifetime, but to make sure they didn't last too long. Motor bearings are lasting too long? Put weaker bearings in. Motor runs too cool? Put a smaller fan on it so it wears out faster.
Being the tinkering type who has fixed several things around my house, I had to find a stouter voltage regulator for my Schumacher battery maintainer after it fried the weak one. Just had to fix the tiny mechanical switches with tarnished contacts on my 3 year old DVD recorder/VCR combo because the switch that indicates the DVD tray is shut wouldn't work, so it refused to play DVDs anymore.
Being the tinkering type who has fixed several things around my house, I had to find a stouter voltage regulator for my Schumacher battery maintainer after it fried the weak one. Just had to fix the tiny mechanical switches with tarnished contacts on my 3 year old DVD recorder/VCR combo because the switch that indicates the DVD tray is shut wouldn't work, so it refused to play DVDs anymore.
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
Originally Posted By: S65AMG
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
The Monogram fridge and microwave have been huge POS. Fridge especially. 4 repairs and still has issues.
I fixed the Monogram fridge myself after two "engineers" came out.
Don't tell me, the crisper and meat drawers are freezing over?
Ice maker 2x's -- even after the whole unit repalced; and temp will not remain at 37 keeps going lower and lower ... wants to freeze everything.
Had same problem with Kenmore. even eggs frozen. Little motorized door stuck open from freezer. Instead of $200 part used tape over 2/3rds of opening.
Originally Posted By: S65AMG
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
The Monogram fridge and microwave have been huge POS. Fridge especially. 4 repairs and still has issues.
I fixed the Monogram fridge myself after two "engineers" came out.
Don't tell me, the crisper and meat drawers are freezing over?
Ice maker 2x's -- even after the whole unit repalced; and temp will not remain at 37 keeps going lower and lower ... wants to freeze everything.
Had same problem with Kenmore. even eggs frozen. Little motorized door stuck open from freezer. Instead of $200 part used tape over 2/3rds of opening.
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
I would love to see a north american company make a really good quality product and back-it up with a real warranty and see how they do in this new economy.
I have seen this happen in a smaller way. I fix small power equipment for people as a hobby/side business. The new equipment today has such poor quality. I've seen two year old lawn mowers and snowblowers that have completely rusted away. The engines usually run perfect, but the rest of the machine becomes unfixable and must be be thrown away. I've seen lawn mowers out for the trash that still start and run, but have other problems making them useless.
I have started buying older quality-built machines, and restoring them back to working condition and selling them. I recently bought a 1970s era rototiller. It had a worn out 5 HP Briggs and Stratton on it that barely ran, but had a nice cast iron gearbox. I rebuilt the engine, new bearings, new fluids, and new paint. I listed it on craigslist and sold it in 2 days for the full asking price.
Here is a before pic:
Here is the engine after rebuild and paint:
Here is the finished product:
I'm currently working on restoring two 1960s vintage Ariens Sno-Thro snowblowers. They are a bit rough and the engines need work, but they have nice heavy duty cast iron gear boxes.
I would love to see a north american company make a really good quality product and back-it up with a real warranty and see how they do in this new economy.
I have seen this happen in a smaller way. I fix small power equipment for people as a hobby/side business. The new equipment today has such poor quality. I've seen two year old lawn mowers and snowblowers that have completely rusted away. The engines usually run perfect, but the rest of the machine becomes unfixable and must be be thrown away. I've seen lawn mowers out for the trash that still start and run, but have other problems making them useless.
I have started buying older quality-built machines, and restoring them back to working condition and selling them. I recently bought a 1970s era rototiller. It had a worn out 5 HP Briggs and Stratton on it that barely ran, but had a nice cast iron gearbox. I rebuilt the engine, new bearings, new fluids, and new paint. I listed it on craigslist and sold it in 2 days for the full asking price.
Here is a before pic:
Here is the engine after rebuild and paint:
Here is the finished product:
I'm currently working on restoring two 1960s vintage Ariens Sno-Thro snowblowers. They are a bit rough and the engines need work, but they have nice heavy duty cast iron gear boxes.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
.....
I have also found that the Country of Origin has little effect on the product's performance. As long as you are purchasing a quality product from a reputable manufacturer, this Country of Origin should not make a difference. I have had no unexpected issues with off-shore products.
This part is often overlooked yet so critical. Companies are responsible for quality control, not country of origin. You can implement the same level of process reliability and quality anywhere in the world now days. 6 sigma has allowed companies to refine processes to the point that high quality and reliability can be achieved ragardless of location. If you stick to quality companies, they will give you a quality product.
.....
I have also found that the Country of Origin has little effect on the product's performance. As long as you are purchasing a quality product from a reputable manufacturer, this Country of Origin should not make a difference. I have had no unexpected issues with off-shore products.
This part is often overlooked yet so critical. Companies are responsible for quality control, not country of origin. You can implement the same level of process reliability and quality anywhere in the world now days. 6 sigma has allowed companies to refine processes to the point that high quality and reliability can be achieved ragardless of location. If you stick to quality companies, they will give you a quality product.
Originally Posted By: gr8gatzby
Get an Apple computer, 80's Volvo brick, and Bosch appliances. Problem solved.
My Bosch dishwasher (made in USA but mostly german parts) currently has broken master switch. Also the pump with carbon on carbon bearings is screaching like mad intermitently. Appliance repair person said $200/parts + full dissection of dishwasher to correct the screach.
Thankfully it works incredibly well at washing and until it breaks again it will linger on.
I purchased a very low rated in reviews Frigidaire(scarey ones) loss leader front load washer($390) due to small dimensions to get up tight old staircase. The other choice was Bosch ($1000). Not a single issue with our front load washer in 5 years use and used 1-2 times per day.
Pure luck.....
Get an Apple computer, 80's Volvo brick, and Bosch appliances. Problem solved.
My Bosch dishwasher (made in USA but mostly german parts) currently has broken master switch. Also the pump with carbon on carbon bearings is screaching like mad intermitently. Appliance repair person said $200/parts + full dissection of dishwasher to correct the screach.
Thankfully it works incredibly well at washing and until it breaks again it will linger on.
I purchased a very low rated in reviews Frigidaire(scarey ones) loss leader front load washer($390) due to small dimensions to get up tight old staircase. The other choice was Bosch ($1000). Not a single issue with our front load washer in 5 years use and used 1-2 times per day.
Pure luck.....
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
I would love to see a north american company make a really good quality product and back-it up with a real warranty and see how they do in this new economy.
I have seen this happen in a smaller way. I fix small power equipment for people as a hobby/side business. The new equipment today has such poor quality. I've seen two year old lawn mowers and snowblowers that have completely rusted away. The engines usually run perfect, but the rest of the machine becomes unfixable and must be be thrown away. I've seen lawn mowers out for the trash that still start and run, but have other problems making them useless.
I have started buying older quality-built machines, and restoring them back to working condition and selling them. I recently bought a 1970s era rototiller. It had a worn out 5 HP Briggs and Stratton on it that barely ran, but had a nice cast iron gearbox. I rebuilt the engine, new bearings, new fluids, and new paint. I listed it on craigslist and sold it in 2 days for the full asking price.
I'm currently working on restoring two 1960s vintage Ariens Sno-Thro snowblowers. They are a bit rough and the engines need work, but they have nice heavy duty cast iron gear boxes.
I love it.. That is something I would totally love to do.
Good on you!
(Reminds me of American Restoration a little bit) which is a fantastic show.. (for item content anyway)
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
I would love to see a north american company make a really good quality product and back-it up with a real warranty and see how they do in this new economy.
I have seen this happen in a smaller way. I fix small power equipment for people as a hobby/side business. The new equipment today has such poor quality. I've seen two year old lawn mowers and snowblowers that have completely rusted away. The engines usually run perfect, but the rest of the machine becomes unfixable and must be be thrown away. I've seen lawn mowers out for the trash that still start and run, but have other problems making them useless.
I have started buying older quality-built machines, and restoring them back to working condition and selling them. I recently bought a 1970s era rototiller. It had a worn out 5 HP Briggs and Stratton on it that barely ran, but had a nice cast iron gearbox. I rebuilt the engine, new bearings, new fluids, and new paint. I listed it on craigslist and sold it in 2 days for the full asking price.
I'm currently working on restoring two 1960s vintage Ariens Sno-Thro snowblowers. They are a bit rough and the engines need work, but they have nice heavy duty cast iron gear boxes.
I love it.. That is something I would totally love to do.
Good on you!
(Reminds me of American Restoration a little bit) which is a fantastic show.. (for item content anyway)
Originally Posted By: Dave Sherman
I know a guy who worked for Hoover, and said he was involved with lifetime testing of their vacuum cleaners. Not to increase their lifetime, but to make sure they didn't last too long. Motor bearings are lasting too long? Put weaker bearings in. Motor runs too cool? Put a smaller fan on it so it wears out faster.
Are there engineers out there whose job is to design the stuff so as it will break immediately after the warranty expires? I had always guessed so but so far I have not come across a single engineer who is personally involved in this practice.
I still have a Hoover convertible (i.e. their bottom of the line machine) purchased in 1982. I have kept it running for last 30 years. I will bet that your friend was not working there before 1982
I know a guy who worked for Hoover, and said he was involved with lifetime testing of their vacuum cleaners. Not to increase their lifetime, but to make sure they didn't last too long. Motor bearings are lasting too long? Put weaker bearings in. Motor runs too cool? Put a smaller fan on it so it wears out faster.
Are there engineers out there whose job is to design the stuff so as it will break immediately after the warranty expires? I had always guessed so but so far I have not come across a single engineer who is personally involved in this practice.
I still have a Hoover convertible (i.e. their bottom of the line machine) purchased in 1982. I have kept it running for last 30 years. I will bet that your friend was not working there before 1982
Originally Posted By: badtlc
If you stick to quality companies, they will give you a quality product.
My problem with this rationale is simple. The very definition of quality is different these days. And there IS planned obsolescence everywhere, computers have allowed any company to do longevity studies digitally in minutes instead of expensive real world testing.
If you stick to quality companies, they will give you a quality product.
My problem with this rationale is simple. The very definition of quality is different these days. And there IS planned obsolescence everywhere, computers have allowed any company to do longevity studies digitally in minutes instead of expensive real world testing.
Originally Posted By: gr8gatzby
Get an Apple computer, 80's Volvo brick, and Bosch appliances. Problem solved.
Phooey on Bosch. The new side by side I bought for our second home [censored] out shortly after purchase. The two geniuses sent out to repair it didn't know how to do anything but replace the ECU. Finally, I fixed it by replacing the fan and defective door switch.
The matching Bosch washer and dryer I bought at the same time are nothing to get excited about, either.
All the Apple stuff I have seen says Made in China on it. It's nothing to get excited about, either.
Never had a Volvo, and probably never will. Won't have a Bosch appliance again.
Get an Apple computer, 80's Volvo brick, and Bosch appliances. Problem solved.
Phooey on Bosch. The new side by side I bought for our second home [censored] out shortly after purchase. The two geniuses sent out to repair it didn't know how to do anything but replace the ECU. Finally, I fixed it by replacing the fan and defective door switch.
The matching Bosch washer and dryer I bought at the same time are nothing to get excited about, either.
All the Apple stuff I have seen says Made in China on it. It's nothing to get excited about, either.
Never had a Volvo, and probably never will. Won't have a Bosch appliance again.
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