Should I buy a Hybrid?

[The Critic]

Now, a new Civic Hybrid is selling for a little less than $23k, not counting a $2100 federal tax credit.

Thus, the car is really costing me a hair less than $21k, which makes it comparable to the cost of an Accord.

A fully loaded Civic will cost me about $18.5k anyway, so I'm really paying a $2000 premium. Or not at all, considering that a Jetta 2.5L w/pkg 1 will cost about $21k.

Thoughts? Should I be able to recoup the $2000 difference within 150k miles? Do you guys think the CVT unit is more reliable now? (Hint: Honda CVTs haven't been great, Toyota's have)

 

[The Critic]

Or, add the Prius to the list.

 

[WOOCHOW]

I have a 2006 Civic Coupe EX. In our fleet at work we have a couple of Priuses (?) and a couple of hybrid civics as well as an Insight. The hybrids might be OK if you want to save a dime, but if you like to drive a car at all, and handling and a little bit of power appeal to you, don't do it. These cars are a bore to drive, they beat walking but not by much. While I haven't driven one, I hear the Accord hybrid is a different story.

 

[Tosh]

Yeah, get a Jetta! That'll make you a man. A man who cries a lot. At least wait for the return of the diesels.
A friend has a Prius. It seems able to transport people around in comfort.
Rather than adding up hypothetical tax savings, dealer incentives, warranties, timing belt and transmission issues, oil filter locations, and MPGs, why don't you go for a car that really APPEALS to you, emotionally and functionally. You're not picking a washing machine. Don't you like cars? Pride of ownership is everything in keeping up a new car.
Anyway, I thought we decided you were getting a Matrix or Vibe.

 

[Oil Changer]

Why not an American car?

 

[bretfraz]

Do you really want a hybrid? Why not a Civic Si and have some fun? I dunno about the VW, have they worked out their QC problems yet? No way I'd recommend any VW product if they're still having issues.

 

[cousincletus]

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Why not an American car?

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I agree. I wouldn't think the gas savings would make the Civic worth the while. You can get a Chevy Cobalt (auto w/cruise) with a proven reliable powertrain for 12K once you do a little dealing. For the 2007 model year GM cars have a 5/100K mile warranty. That's 9G less than the Civic hybrid including all rebates, tax credits, etc. That will buy a lot of gas.

 

[oilyriser]

If cost is a factor, buy used.

 

[WalterMitty]

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Now, a new Civic Hybrid is selling for a little less than $23k, not counting a $2100 federal tax credit.

Thus, the car is really costing me a hair less than $21k, which makes it comparable to the cost of an Accord.

A fully loaded Civic will cost me about $18.5k anyway, so I'm really paying a $2000 premium. Or not at all, considering that a Jetta 2.5L w/pkg 1 will cost about $21k.

Thoughts? Should I be able to recoup the $2000 difference within 150k miles? Do you guys think the CVT unit is more reliable now? (Hint: Honda CVTs haven't been great, Toyota's have)

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A great deal depends on the type of driving the car will see. If you do a lot of stop-and-go driving there may be a marginal advantage due to the regenerative braking system, but if your driving includes much steady driving, you will see a loss.

IMO hybrids present a net loss for most folks. All the energy you convert to move the car has to pass through the gas tank anyway, so converting some of it to electricity to store in an *expensive* battery that you use later simply guarantees a net loss greater than an internal combustion engine by itself.

My neighbor had an Insight. He bought into the marketing thinking he would really save some money on his long highway commute. It didn't materialize. He got about average fuel economy in a very small, very complicated car. He went back to a used Escort wagon for a much lower total overall operating cost (and no subsidy from the taxpayers).

A small diesel would be a better choice, but I still can't get the economics to work out. The ~$2000.00 premimum paid for something like the VW doesn't get paid back for many miles/years. I've seen diesel fuel sell for a 50-60 cent premium over regular unleaded. Add in some pretty pricey scheduled maintenance and it's not unrealistic to think it would take well over 150,000 miles to *break even*. A lot can happen in 150,000 miles that would make you want to own something else. I would have to get a real thrill out of the car to make that kind of committment.

For lowest cost transportation in most circumstances, you cannot beat one of the several small gas-engine-only options available. After that it's all about personal tastes.

 

[CBDFrontier06]

I haven't seen any hard facts about emissions on these cars. Are they significantly less polluting than their non-hybrid counterparts? (Civic LX / EX). If they are, then maybe you could also take the environment into consideration when making a purchase, instead of making it a 100% financial decision.

 

[WalterMitty]

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I haven't seen any hard facts about emissions on these cars. Are they significantly less polluting than their non-hybrid counterparts? (Civic LX / EX). If they are, then maybe you could also take the environment into consideration when making a purchase, instead of making it a 100% financial decision.

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Emission numbers for modern engines are readily available on the internet. Honda is the largest engine manufacturer in the world and has lead several technological advances. The short answer is that for a given amount of fuel consumed, Honda engines are nearly identical for emissions within a given category, and for all modern engines the total emissions are very similar within the same category.

I think you make an important point regarding taking the environment into consideration, I wish more people would take total environmental impact into consideration. If they did, ideas like hybrids (as currently engineered) would never see the light of day.

 

[brianl703]

That depends. Do you:

1)Commute to work?

2)By yourself?

3)On highways with HOV restrictions?

4)Which hybrids are exempt from?

If you can answer yes to all 4, you can buy a hybrid for the same reason everyone else here does.

 

[surfstar]

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If cost is a factor, buy used.

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YES!

You can buy a reliable used car for MUCH less than any new hybrid would ever make up for in gas savings.

Used car = no/less car payment, cheaper registration, cheaper insurance, less worry about someone dinging it, recalls taken care of, engine already broken in (no need to start a 2 page post about when to change your new car's oil), etc.

New car = depreciation, etc.

that's just me.

 

[surfstar]

Also, how does buying a NEW car save the environment? Buy something that has already been built, and the resources already consumed (buy used) and then you can have less impact. Think of all the resources that go into building a new car. If we kept our used cars in good condition (no oil leaking like crazy) we'd be better off.

 

[CBDFrontier06]

Used car: Keep in mind that when you buy a used car, you may sometimes be buying someone else's problems. A great percentage of the general population don't spend much time or money having proper maintenance performed. Working in a dealership service department is a huge wake-up call to people's knowledge of their own vehicles. I even witnessed one siezed engine due to a COMPLETE lack of oil changes in a 24,000 mile period. People are capable of some pretty scary stuff where their cars are concerned, and buying new is often buying peace of mind that your car hasn't previously been used to pull stumps on someone's farm.

 

[GC4lunch]

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Why not an American car?

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What is an American car these days?

We happen to drive a "Japanese" Mazda6 that was manufactured in Michigan by UAW labor. Ford Fusions, Mercury Milans, and Lincoln Zephyrs are all based on the same Mazda6 platform, but Ford builds them in Mexico.

So, between the Mazda6 and the Ford Fusion, which of the two is the "American" car? Neither? Both?

 

[brianl703]

Mexico is in America

 

[cavitating]

The electricity you produce on a hybrid equals the efficiency of the gas engine that produced the electricity.
On a hybrid, you have two systems, one is a gas engine and the other is an electric engine that complicates things.You cannot produce cheaper electricity than the power company. Until we get a true electric car that we can plug at home or work we will not see real savings.

 

[Master ACiD]

go with a regular civic, or better yet buy one used. most civics dont need any mainternce untill atleast 60K? anyways, so any mileage under that means a fully maintained civic (so long as they changed the oil once in a while).

 

[greenjp]

Just to clarify one point that some people have made - The efficiency of the hybrid comes from the regenerative braking. The power used to charge the batteries ultimately does come from the engine - but, it's basically scavenging otherwise wasted energy. Normal brakes convert the vehicle's energy into heat as you slow down, a hybrid turns the energy into power in the batteries. Looked at in isolation it truly does improve efficiency.

jeff