Should C.A.F.E standards be raised even higher?

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: Torino
Ah yes. The country (USA) really needs more twinkies standing in line to vote MY rights and freedoms away. Stay home and play your video games. John--Las Vegas.


I broke my leg in late January, so I'm way ahead of you! I have a bit of Russian in my blood, but that's as close as I get to being Asian.

Now that you mention it, you guys could probably use a gas tax increase even more than us. I had to drive through toll roads once when I was down there. That sort of inefficient revenue collection is an obvious sign of a lack of infrastructure funding.

 

[ProStreetCamaro]

Originally Posted By: kender
Yep, It's our American right to burn up that oil as fast as they can pump it out of the ground. No reason to try to make it last longer. It's not like we're competing with China, India, or other rising economic markets for that same oil.

Sorry guys, but oil is a finite natural resource. Your POS SUV's are a sympton of what is wrong in this country today.


I suggest you move to the UK. You will fit in perfectly. Who the heck are you to tell ME what I can and can not drive? There is enough oil in the ground around the world to fuel everything for hundreds of years to come. By then we will surely have much superior technology and no longer be oil dependent. Do you also not know that many wells that have gone dry have replenished over time? Quite frankly I would rather walk than drive 99% of the horribly ugly pos econo cars that are on the market today. Then again this just shows that you really could care less about a car or truck. See I am a car guy. Power, performance and exterior styling are what I like. If it were up to you I would have none of the above.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc

I agree. I'm a big guy. Very long legs, big build. What am I suppose to do - buy a Corolla or Civic and take the front seat out and drive from the back seat? I barely fit into my wife's Camry and even then there isn't enough leg room to be comfortable.


I'm 6'3" and weigh 200lbs. I was able to drive a Civic, Integra, and a Suzuki Swift just fine. I do have to drive with the seat reclined about halfway between bolt-upright and "gangsta' lean" to look through the proper part of the windshield, but it's just fine.

you know what I don't fit in? Older pick ups. The '73-'86 C10? 18 inches of legroom and 5 feet of headroom. Similar year F100-150? If it doesn't have tilt steering, I can't get my thigh under the steering wheel. Trying to wedge myself into a vintage pick-up cab means my knees will be in constant contact with the ignition switch or choke lever

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: subiedriver
I plan on driving my "fuel efficient" car until it is no longer driveable. I'm expecting to drive it at least 250,000 miles. I'm certainly not a "green freak" either, not by a long shot. I have a 90 mile roundtrip commute to work every day, if I were driving a land yacht, I'd be flat broke at the current fuel prices. I'm glad I drive a 30 mpg car and I have no use for an SUV, none, nada, zilch. You know what they say, SUV = Suburban Useless Vehicle. People can drive what they want, but I don't have any sympathy for them when they moan about $3.50/gallon.


If people can drive what they want, why the digs and jabs? Why the snide acronyms?

I don't have a 90 mile commute to work. It is about 3Km (1.86 miles) each way. So my "gas sucking Suburban Useless Vehicle" pollutes less in the course of a week than you likely do in a day.

How much oil would be saved if people lived closer to their job and didn't do 90 mile commutes? I'm sure it would be in the trillions of barrels

BTW, my Expedition tows just fine. I know because I tow with it semi-regularly in the summer. Primarily my 4-wheeler (which you don't even know is there) other times a car trailer with a Mustang on it (~3,000lbs) which it has absolutely no trouble with. It has a 7,500lb towing capacity. I do not tow anything NEAR heavy enough to require a diesel. And on the incredibly rare off chance that I did, I have a friend with a Super Duty.

A good set of shocks and the Expie handles surprisingly well for 6,200lbs. It really isn't all that slow either.

What's your 'subie ET? MPH? I'm quite sure there are many that would consider it "slow" too. These things have to be put in context to be relevant. For a daily driver, I don't find my SUV lacking in any department. It isn't a drag car, and it isn't setup to run Mosport. I don't think those are realistic expectations of any "normal" daily driver. There are always trade-offs in any regard. A WRX isn't going to tow like a Tahoe. And a Tahoe isn't going to handle like a WRX. And the Tahoe is probably going to be a lot more comfortable and can keep the kids entertained with DVD's in the back.

If you don't see the appeal of an SUV, you likely simply aren't in a position to do so. How many kids do you have? large dogs? How often do you tow things? Make long trips in the summer towing things?

Context. You understand why I have a garage toy I assume. Try to look further and understand why an SUV or van makes sense for others.

 

[spasm3]

This whole thread will have me smiling next time i fill up the avalanche with 30 gallons of premium!

 

[unDummy]

As long as beer prices don't rise much, I could care less too.

If you can afford it, then its your choice. If you complain about it, you're a fool.

Most people live above their means. Higher gas prices might knock some sense into them....well, maybe just into 1-3% of them!!!!

Higher gas prices should also reduce obesity. Food or gas is your choice. And, we're a pretty pompously chubby society.

Crime is interesting too. The criminals can't afford to drive out to the sticks or boondocks to rob you. This means crime will drop in some areas. But, those same criminals will just wait for you to visit the lifestyle of the populated city areas, which will see a crime increase. Works for me!!!!!

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc

I agree. I'm a big guy. Very long legs, big build. What am I suppose to do - buy a Corolla or Civic and take the front seat out and drive from the back seat? I barely fit into my wife's Camry and even then there isn't enough leg room to be comfortable.


I'm 6'3" and weigh 200lbs. I was able to drive a Civic, Integra, and a Suzuki Swift just fine. I do have to drive with the seat reclined about halfway between bolt-upright and "gangsta' lean" to look through the proper part of the windshield, but it's just fine.

you know what I don't fit in? Older pick ups. The '73-'86 C10? 18 inches of legroom and 5 feet of headroom. Similar year F100-150? If it doesn't have tilt steering, I can't get my thigh under the steering wheel. Trying to wedge myself into a vintage pick-up cab means my knees will be in constant contact with the ignition switch or choke lever


I hear you but I'm more than 6' 3" and 200 pounds. I could drive the cars you mentioned and probably have at some point in my life. In the 80's I worked for a major rental car agency and I drove everything from Hondas to Town Cars to trucks.
I've owned several Datsun cars and trucks (obviously back in the 70's and 80's) Neither one were known for an over abundance of space! LOL!

I've owned a couple of Pintos, a couple of Ford Escorts, a Ford Tempo, a Ford Fairmount, 3 Ford Galaxie 500's (one with a 351W, one with a 390 and one with a 429) a Chevy Vega, three or four Oldsmobiles from the 50's and 60's, a couple of Ford Aerostars, a Plymouth Voyager and probably a few others I failed to mention.

The point is - especially in my old age, small cars are NOT comfortable for me especially on long drives and some are very hard for me to get in and out of. For those of you who are young and/or don't have physical problems like arthritis or back problems - you may not understand this now but you will some day!

My wife has had her Camry for 6 years and I drive it pretty much only when it needs gas! I think I drove it once (when we first bought it) on a 150 mile round trip and said "Never again"!

 

[m37charlie]

Abolish CAFE standards, raise price of fuel to $6-7/gal with fuel tax, use revenue to fund nat'l health care + deficit reduction. Let people buy what they want. I daresay we'd see a lot of nice (diesel) fuel-efficient vehicles for sale.

Charlie

 

[refaller]

I like that idea. Don't worry about CAFE, just tax the tar out of gas and let people make their choice- just don't complain about how much gas cost when you drive an inefficient car.

ref

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro
See I am a car guy. Power, performance and exterior styling are what I like. If it were up to you I would have none of the above.


It's probably safe to say that we're ALL "car guys" here. I don't like the mentality that car guys like power and performance, and if that's not your thing, move out of the way. Automotive appreciation runs much wider than a horsepower or lateral G number.

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted By: refaller
I like that idea. Don't worry about CAFE, just tax the tar out of gas and let people make their choice- just don't complain about how much gas cost when you drive an inefficient car.

ref


Get rid of cafe, and don't tax it any more than it is, and let people make their choice.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
Raise CAFE standards all you want. You still can't mandate demand.

Also, you can't just snap your fingers and expect manufacturers to make cars more fuel efficient without passing on the costs to the consumers. How much more are you willing to pay for this fuel efficiency?


The auto industry has had the technology for years to build vehicels that are much more fuel efficent than what's currently avaiable, however they choose to use that technology to build vehicles that are more powerful, more filled with electronic gizmos, and bigger. If they'd put all that technology towards fuel efficency we'd have vehicles that get 50, 60, or even 70 MPG by now. They need to get away from building apartment buildings on wheels and concentrating their efforts on fuel economy...and don't bother making the statement that the automakers are only building what consumers want. With gas at $4 and climbing with no end in sight, you can bet people are going to want high MPG vehicles....

 

[Kestas]

I will make the statement that automakers are building what people want. They always have. This is a market driven economy and you're unfairly blaming the automakers. The automakers are capable of building anything... from econoboxes to Rolls Royces. If people want 40 mpg vehicles, they will show the money and buy them, and the automakers will respond with production of more such vehicles.

If you think it's that easy and the demand is there, start a car company that builds cars with 50, 60, or 70 mpg. Then let's watch the market flock to your showrooms to buy these vehicles. Make sure you do your market research first so you don't go bankrupt.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro
See I am a car guy. Power, performance and exterior styling are what I like. If it were up to you I would have none of the above.


It's probably safe to say that we're ALL "car guys" here. I don't like the mentality that car guys like power and performance, and if that's not your thing, move out of the way. Automotive appreciation runs much wider than a horsepower or lateral G number.


When I was younger, it was about power.

Now it's more about balance. Power is just a small part of the equation. I also appreciate handling, economy, comfort, uniqueness, style, and function.

Take for example my old shop car. Tercel wagon. It had no power, didn't handle particularly well, and [darn] sure wasn't stylish. But I still loved it. Why? Because it could do everything else I asked it to do. Pick up a long block? No problem. Drive across a mud parking lot to get home. No problem. Fuel economy? 3X the mpg that the other cars got. I turn in an expense report, boss writes the check. No fussing, no complaining.

I learned from that silly little wagon that the ability to mash down the skinny pedal and haul [glutes] isn't everything.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
I will make the statement that automakers are building what people want. They always have. This is a market driven economy and you're unfairly blaming the automakers. The automakers are capable of building anything... from econoboxes to Rolls Royces. If people want 40 mpg vehicles, they will show the money and buy them, and the automakers will respond with production of more such vehicles.

If you think it's that easy and the demand is there, start a car company that builds cars with 50, 60, or 70 mpg. Then let's watch the market flock to your showrooms to buy these vehicles. Make sure you do your market research first so you don't go bankrupt.


Perhaps you have a short memory. Remember when gas went over $4 back in '08 and the dealerships had all the gas hogs sitting on their lots collecting dust? They couldn't give them away. It won't be any different this time around.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I will make the statement that automakers are building what people want. They always have. This is a market driven economy and you're unfairly blaming the automakers. The automakers are capable of building anything... from econoboxes to Rolls Royces. If people want 40 mpg vehicles, they will show the money and buy them, and the automakers will respond with production of more such vehicles.

If you think it's that easy and the demand is there, start a car company that builds cars with 50, 60, or 70 mpg. Then let's watch the market flock to your showrooms to buy these vehicles. Make sure you do your market research first so you don't go bankrupt.


Perhaps you have a short memory. Remember when gas went over $4 back in '08 and the dealerships had all the gas hogs sitting on their lots collecting dust? They couldn't give them away. It won't be any different this time around.


That was when we bought the Expedition, LOL. For very much that reason. Got a fantastic deal on it!

And we were paying closer to $5/gallon up here in the GWN

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: subiedriver
.... I have a 90 mile roundtrip commute to work every day, .... I'm glad I drive a 30 mpg car and I have no use for an SUV, none, nada, zilch. You know what they say, SUV = Suburban Useless Vehicle. People can drive what they want, but I don't have any sympathy for them when they moan about $3.50/gallon.

Just food for thought, how much oil would have been saved, had every vehicle delivered 25 mpg over the last 15 years? I'm sure it would be in the trillions of barrels.


Just how much fuel would be saved if gas guzzling people driving 45 miles one way to work were off the roads? Trillions of barrels, maybe? And who here is moaning about the price of gas? It's always the econoboxers.

I'm with Overkill. I'm closing on an office building in the morning that will cut my daily commute to 2.4 miles, round trip. This will be a reduction from my present round trip commute of 7.5 miles to my existing office, which I'll just rent to someone else.

Cars are not gas guzzlers. People are gas guzzlers. I could drive my 4500 lb, 12 cylinder, 11 mpg, Xj12 everyday, and I might just do that, and only use a fraction of the gas that you do. A couple of Volts would cut my gas consumption to zero except when driving between my two residences and one outlying property up near Tulsa.

When I look at the government, I don't exactly see stellar financial decision making, to put it kindly. The government should worry about getting its own Ponzi scheme cleaned up, and let people be free to live their lives the way they think will bring them the most happiness.

If the government wants to get involved, it should require that people learn basic financial decision making. I'm betting it will never do that - it won't come out looking very good.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I will make the statement that automakers are building what people want. They always have. This is a market driven economy and you're unfairly blaming the automakers. The automakers are capable of building anything... from econoboxes to Rolls Royces. If people want 40 mpg vehicles, they will show the money and buy them, and the automakers will respond with production of more such vehicles.

If you think it's that easy and the demand is there, start a car company that builds cars with 50, 60, or 70 mpg. Then let's watch the market flock to your showrooms to buy these vehicles. Make sure you do your market research first so you don't go bankrupt.


Perhaps you have a short memory. Remember when gas went over $4 back in '08 and the dealerships had all the gas hogs sitting on their lots collecting dust? They couldn't give them away. It won't be any different this time around.


That was when we bought the Expedition, LOL. For very much that reason. Got a fantastic deal on it!

And we were paying closer to $5/gallon up here in the GWN

Do you plan to keep it no matter how high gas prices go?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I will make the statement that automakers are building what people want. They always have. This is a market driven economy and you're unfairly blaming the automakers. The automakers are capable of building anything... from econoboxes to Rolls Royces. If people want 40 mpg vehicles, they will show the money and buy them, and the automakers will respond with production of more such vehicles.

If you think it's that easy and the demand is there, start a car company that builds cars with 50, 60, or 70 mpg. Then let's watch the market flock to your showrooms to buy these vehicles. Make sure you do your market research first so you don't go bankrupt.


Perhaps you have a short memory. Remember when gas went over $4 back in '08 and the dealerships had all the gas hogs sitting on their lots collecting dust? They couldn't give them away. It won't be any different this time around.


That was when we bought the Expedition, LOL. For very much that reason. Got a fantastic deal on it!

And we were paying closer to $5/gallon up here in the GWN

Do you plan to keep it no matter how high gas prices go?


I might drive the Focus more if we get up into the $2.00/L territory ($7.57/gallon).

The "what if" gas prices that freak you guys out... We already pay them up here.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
When I was younger, it was about power.

Now it's more about balance. Power is just a small part of the equation. I also appreciate handling, economy, comfort, uniqueness, style, and function.


Me too, to a T.