Should C.A.F.E standards be raised even higher?

[Kestas]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Perhaps you have a short memory. Remember when gas went over $4 back in '08 and the dealerships had all the gas hogs sitting on their lots collecting dust? They couldn't give them away. It won't be any different this time around.

Do you remember how long this lasted? It was a blip in our economy, then people went back to buying big cars. It takes a minimum of three years to take an automotive concept to production. How are the automakers to know what the gas prices will be three years from now?

It would be a nightmare if the automakers gear up for small car production, only to have gas prices drop to to $2.50 with the market demanding large vehicles. I also remember what happened back in the late 70s. Some automakers did gear up for small car production. Once the price of gas went down, it was the automakers that continued to make large cars who were in good shape.

After every international crisis, where the price of gas spikes, the price of gas comes down hard. This has been the trend over the past 100 years. It happened after the oil embargos of the 70s, and after the speculation crisis three years ago. After this blows over - mark my word - we are sure to see the price of gas come down. Maybe not this summer, but it will come down from the highs we're seeing today.

I agree that we'll see a clamor for small cars, similar to what we saw three years ago. That's why I joked to people last year to buy up all the used Geo Metros they could get their hands on, to sell for profit during this crisis, which will only be temporary.

We have this discussion every time the price of gas spikes.

 

[KrisZ]

Quote:
The "what if" gas prices that freak you guys out... We already pay them up here.



Exactly and our economy did not collapse, people still drive what they want to drive (plenty of SUV's and sport 2 seater cars on the road) and the drive trough’s for the Tim Horton's coffee are still a mile long.

Blaming certain vehicle type and their owners for increased gas prices is very hypocritical, after all the blamers use gas as well.

 

[grampi]

Kestas

The reason the last gas hog drought was such a blip was because the high gas prices didn't last. This time will be different. Prices will eventually stablize, and they may even come down a bit, but I think the days of sub-$3 gas are gone. The trend of increasing demand from the world economy, and the oil industries inability to keep up with demand (whether real or not) is a good indication that high MPG vehicles will be in demand to stay. Gas hogs are on their way out...

 

[Smokescreen]

The Volt/Leaf isn't really the answer either. You have to recharge the batteries with electricity burned from something, from dams that wrecked some ecology somewhere, from nuclear plant that uses radioactive whatever....wind turbines and solar panels are too few and far between to produce mass amounts we consume. Power generation at this point is kind of dirty.

 

[kender]

Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro
Originally Posted By: kender
Yep, It's our American right to burn up that oil as fast as they can pump it out of the ground. No reason to try to make it last longer. It's not like we're competing with China, India, or other rising economic markets for that same oil.

Sorry guys, but oil is a finite natural resource. Your POS SUV's are a sympton of what is wrong in this country today.


I suggest you move to the UK. You will fit in perfectly. Who the heck are you to tell ME what I can and can not drive? There is enough oil in the ground around the world to fuel everything for hundreds of years to come. By then we will surely have much superior technology and no longer be oil dependent. Do you also not know that many wells that have gone dry have replenished over time? Quite frankly I would rather walk than drive 99% of the horribly ugly pos econo cars that are on the market today. Then again this just shows that you really could care less about a car or truck. See I am a car guy. Power, performance and exterior styling are what I like. If it were up to you I would have none of the above.


LOL!! Ok "car guy". I guess since I drive a fuel efficient vehicle I know nothing about cars, huh? Besides it's not just about mpg. You ever tried backing out of a parking space with a giant SUV on either side? You can't see anything. Just got to go easy and hope for the best.
Also just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I have to move out of YOUR country.

When I was young and dumb I was a "car guy" too. I owned a 1967 GTO.

 

[kender]

Originally Posted By: unDummy
As long as beer prices don't rise much, I could care less too.

If you can afford it, then its your choice. If you complain about it, you're a fool.

Most people live above their means. Higher gas prices might knock some sense into them....well, maybe just into 1-3% of them!!!!

Quote:
Higher gas prices should also reduce obesity. Food or gas is your choice. And, we're a pretty pompously chubby society.

Crime is interesting too. The criminals can't afford to drive out to the sticks or boondocks to rob you. This means crime will drop in some areas. But, those same criminals will just wait for you to visit the lifestyle of the populated city areas, which will see a crime increase. Works for me!!!!!




LOL!!!!

 

[kender]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Raise CAFE standards all you want. You still can't mandate demand.

Also, you can't just snap your fingers and expect manufacturers to make cars more fuel efficient without passing on the costs to the consumers. How much more are you willing to pay for this fuel efficiency?


The auto industry has had the technology for years to build vehicels that are much more fuel efficent than what's currently avaiable, however they choose to use that technology to build vehicles that are more powerful, more filled with electronic gizmos, and bigger. If they'd put all that technology towards fuel efficency we'd have vehicles that get 50, 60, or even 70 MPG by now. They need to get away from building
Quote:
apartment buildings on wheels
and concentrating their efforts on fuel economy...and don't bother making the statement that the automakers are only building what consumers want. With gas at $4 and climbing with no end in sight, you can bet people are going to want high MPG vehicles....

 

[ZZman]

5 miners are trapped in a cave for what they are told will be 5 days.

They have 10 candy bars and 10 bottles of water for the 5 days.

7 out of ten say they should split the candy bars and water evenly between them to get thru the 10 days.

3 of them insist they should get more because they are bigger and want it.

 

[subiedriver]

I'm actually not moaning about gas prices. I can still afford to drive even at $5/gallon. The 10 mpg gas pig on the other hand, will be parked. I choose to live out in the country, away from the city, so a high mpg vehicle saves me quite a bit of money. My gas bill per year would double in an Expedition, and for what? For me, nothing. I'm single, no kids and no dogs, by the way, don't have anything to tow either, lol.

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: grampi


Perhaps you have a short memory. Remember when gas went over $4 back in '08 and the dealerships had all the gas hogs sitting on their lots collecting dust? They couldn't give them away. It won't be any different this time around.


IDK, maybe it's your memory that is faulty...


The top ten best-selling vehicles of 2008 were:

1. Ford F-Series

2. Chevrolet Silverado

3. Toyota Camry

4. Honda Accord

5. Toyota Corolla

6. Honda Civic

7. Nissan Altima

8. Chevrolet Impala

9. Dodge Ram

10. Honda CR-V



btw...2008 was the 27th consecutive year that the F-150 topped this list.

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: grampi
...and don't bother making the statement that the automakers are only building what consumers want. With gas at $4 and climbing with no end in sight, you can bet people are going to want high MPG vehicles....


Sure, some will...but would you care to make a wager as to whether or not the F-150, Chevy/GMC and Ram pick ups still occupy three of the top ten spots in sales at the end of the year?

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Originally Posted By: grampi
Perhaps you have a short memory. Remember when gas went over $4 back in '08 and the dealerships had all the gas hogs sitting on their lots collecting dust? They couldn't give them away. It won't be any different this time around.

IDK, maybe it's your memory that is faulty...


The top ten best-selling vehicles of 2008 were:

1. Ford F-Series

2. Chevrolet Silverado

3. Toyota Camry

4. Honda Accord

5. Toyota Corolla

6. Honda Civic

7. Nissan Altima

8. Chevrolet Impala

9. Dodge Ram

10. Honda CR-V


btw...2008 was the 27th consecutive year that the F-150 topped this list.

Nice try, but your list doesn't mention anything about the demographics of these buyers. I think you'll find most large vehicle purchases that year were made by businesses. Most consumers were buying fuel sippers, if they bought at all...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Originally Posted By: grampi
...and don't bother making the statement that the automakers are only building what consumers want. With gas at $4 and climbing with no end in sight, you can bet people are going to want high MPG vehicles....

Sure, some will...but would you care to make a wager as to whether or not the F-150, Chevy/GMC and Ram pick ups still occupy three of the top ten spots in sales at the end of the year?

Again, when gas prices are this high, it ain't Joe Blow buying the big pickups, it's Joe Contractor...

 

[LS2JSTS]

LOL...How do the demographics matter when the list is posted in response to your contention that the manufacturers only build what they want to sell?

The fact is that the market demands certain vehicles and that is why they build them. For the last thirty years the demand has been there and it isn't going anywhere, despite your claims to the contrary.

FWIW, almost all manufacturers have some pretty compelling small car offerings this time around. So the availability of popular small cars will be plentiful, yet still the pick ups will occupy three of the top ten spots at the end of this year. Regardless of "demographics" the point is there is and will continue to be a strong market demand for certain fuel "hogs" to use your vernacular.

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Originally Posted By: grampi
...and don't bother making the statement that the automakers are only building what consumers want. With gas at $4 and climbing with no end in sight, you can bet people are going to want high MPG vehicles....

Sure, some will...but would you care to make a wager as to whether or not the F-150, Chevy/GMC and Ram pick ups still occupy three of the top ten spots in sales at the end of the year?

Again, when gas prices are this high, it ain't Joe Blow buying the big pickups, it's Joe Contractor...

Again....LOL.

So in your mind "demand" only counts when it is from the "Joe Blow" buyer...when demand is strong from the trades and industry, that doesn't count?

Do you even realize what you are saying...that contention is pure foolishness. Do the profits from those sales only count when the buyer is "Joe Blow" as well...lol.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
IDK, maybe it's your memory that is faulty...


The top ten best-selling vehicles of 2008 were:

1. Ford F-Series

2. Chevrolet Silverado

3. Toyota Camry

4. Honda Accord

5. Toyota Corolla

6. Honda Civic

7. Nissan Altima

8. Chevrolet Impala

9. Dodge Ram

10. Honda CR-V


btw...2008 was the 27th consecutive year that the F-150 topped this list.

It is the F SERIES not the F-150 BTW... Every thing in the F series (F-150, 250, 350, 450, etc) is incl in those numbers.

That list WILL change. Major changes. If I'm here in a few years you can prove me right or wrong.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Again, when gas prices are this high, it ain't Joe Blow buying the big pickups, it's Joe Contractor...

And with today's economy getting worst Joe contractor will not be buying. And fleet sales are shrinking. And the states and such don't have the $$ anymore and that is getting worst.

Then add in the cost of fuel and the vehicles using more fuel than others will be slowing down in sales.

Bill

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
It is the F SERIES not the F-150 BTW... Every thing in the F series (F-150, 250, 350, 450, etc) is incl in those numbers.

That list WILL change. Major changes. If I'm here in a few years you can prove me right or wrong.

Correct, that does include the whole series. Broken down the F-150 accounted for roughly 350,000 of the 515,000 total sales. But Bill, how does that change the fact that there is/was strong demand for low mileage vehicles even in 2008? And practically every other year, before or since?

As for it changing...any chance you want to back those words up? I'll wager you a gentlemans bet that the list contains the Ford and GM pick-ups this year, next year and the next year...and so on.

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
And with today's economy getting worst Joe contractor will not be buying. And fleet sales are shrinking. And the states and such don't have the $$ anymore and that is getting worst.

Then add in the cost of fuel and the vehicles using more fuel than others will be slowing down in sales.

Bill

Whats getting "worst"?

You tell me, if you can review the actual numbers instead of spreading sensationalistic "doom and gloom"...

YTD sales comparison

The numbers represent facts, your predictions are nothing more than speculation...and they fly in the face of the facts.

 

[Smokescreen]

If there is anyone whose lives or thought processes haven't been given a little "shift" due to the happenings all over our planet so far this year, they have their head in the sand.

The world economy is on edge and reacting, it will trickle down to every facet of our lives. YTD numbers mean just that...to date...the rest of the year may already prove to be drastically different than previous trending suggests, & anything can happen.