shell ultra 5w40 vs motul 8100 oil control rings

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Yes, I believe you are talking about Castrol Edge 25W-50 mineral oil for modified V8 engines. You can get it everywhere in Australia, it was called GP 50 back in the day.

KV40 = 204
KV100 = 21
HTHS = 6.1 cP
TBN = 8.3
API SG / CD but it is sold as their premium mineral oil, for street going production race cars.

Link-PDS
 
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
But far to ship it as a experiment but would be interesting

How about your friend hidog for this sort of thing

There is a nice GTX 25W-50 in Australia. 1.5% VM in HVI



No. HiDOG wouldn't be what you would need for this. You're looking for stuff that's really polar and very active. Normally I'd say you would be mad to put 8% of such an active ashless into an oil as it would kill Viton but on this occasion, for say a 500 mile test, I'd say it's worth the risk.

I'd there not a tame Herr Doktor in Munich you know you might be persuaded to pay for the airfreight? From what Lobe says, thid isn't an isolated BMW problem.

Will have a gander at the 25W50 (only just got in from yet another long lunch) and get back to you.
 
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Okay, read the PDS. Do you happen to know if this is blended from HVI 650 or HVI 650BS? Either is good but the latter contains some Brightstock and that might helps some with the rings.

You don't have to tell me the DI but is it an SG/CD system I might possibly have developed in ancient times??? If it's what I think it is, then it's a bit skinny but still very active and should have a shot. Regarding Titanium, I think I've already apologised enough for that so please never mention it again!
 
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Just out of curiosity, what do you reckon to a slug of Nonyl Phenol Sulphide? It was before my time and I think it died a death when ACEA seals came in (presumably it kills RE4?). But it would fit the bill for what might be required to break up oil ring crud?
 
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
The best thing to unstick rings is a high detergent and dispersant oil. Viscosity is not as relevant as additive performance



Very true, but if using a good cleaner oil is not enough, the best thing is to use an idle flush additive just before each oil & filter change. The idea of using a 20w50 just because it has a slightly more solvent base stock is nuts, unless the mains are worn or the engine has serious oil consumption issues, the OEM oil viscosity recommendations are good, as long as you cross check them with what the folks in the EU use, just in case the recommended oil is influenced by US CAFE regs.
 
To unstick rings is it not possible to pull a sparkplug and fill the cylinder with brake cleaner or engine degreaser?
Obviously dont start it and let it soak in and drain the oil or leave drain plug out while the cleaner drips through?
 
Yes that is something that can be done to clean up the compression rings. If the iisue is with the oil control ring the varnish deposits are easier to remove by using an idle flush additive. Those deposits only form because of the use of cheap oils that lack detergents or too long an OCI.

If the rings are getting too hot for some reason it does make varnish formation more of an issue, so it's essential to make sure the engine cooling system is functioning correctly and that includes making sure that the oil flow rate around the top end is correct, so you don't want that flow restricted in any way, so using a flush additive will make sure the oil pump intake screen is clear etc. Also if you use too thick an oil it slows down oil flow around the top end, which will increase the temperature of the oil making varnish formation more likely.
 
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
The reason some cars still have 10w40 listed is that 0w40 oils were not available about 20 years ago


Not true. Twenty years ago I could easily find Castrol Edge (Formula R) 0W-40 full synthetic (PAO) in Australia, and not just the big city. Not only was it available, they were actively pushing it, with advertisements, promotions, race sponsorship, etc. And Australia is a small market, so it I could get Edge 0W-40 here in Australia in the 90's, then it's safe to say it was avaliable. Reading American car magazines in that era, it was obvious similar synthetics were avaliable there too. In the 90's there was a lot of competition between Castrol synthetic and Mobil 1 synthetic to dominate the market place.

Where do you get your "facts" from mate ?
 
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That is true however did those oils meet ACEA or earlier CCMC or any OEM official approval? Were they only API SH, SJ lubricants?
Minimum HT-HS and "stay in grade" requirements were relevant back then too, just they are today.

All petrol sequences (A1,A2, A3-96) were higher spec'd than SJ.

For this reason 10w40 were de facto most popular grade 20 years ago.
 
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
Yes that is something that can be done to clean up the compression rings. If the iisue is with the oil control ring the varnish deposits are easier to remove by using an idle flush additive. Those deposits only form because of the use of cheap oils that lack detergents or too long an OCI.

If the rings are getting too hot for some reason it does make varnish formation more of an issue, so it's essential to make sure the engine cooling system is functioning correctly and that includes making sure that the oil flow rate around the top end is correct, so you don't want that flow restricted in any way, so using a flush additive will make sure the oil pump intake screen is clear etc. Also if you use too thick an oil it slows down oil flow around the top end, which will increase the temperature of the oil making varnish formation more likely.


Oil flushes are the best way to block oil strainers !

Do you just make this stuff up ?
 
Originally Posted By: chrisri
That is true however did those oils meet ACEA or earlier CCMC or any OEM official approval? Were they only API SH, SJ lubricants?
Minimum HT-HS and "stay in grade" requirements were relevant back then too, just they are today.

All petrol sequences (A1,A2, A3-96) were higher spec'd than SJ.

For this reason 10w40 were de facto most popular grade 20 years ago.


Yes I believe they did. The Edge (Formula R) 0W-40 of the mid 90's was the replacement for the Castrol TXT 10W-40 of the early 90's. I have an old TXT bottle here and it lists "CCMC European Test Sequences G4, G5 and PD2. Mercedes-Benz all passenger cars. VW 500.00 and 505.00. Porsche Approved (Air & Water Cooled Engines). Jaguar Approved. Rover Group: BLS 22 OLO-06.07.09. BMW Special Oils Approved". It's also SG / CD and has some US military specs.

I was a big Castrol TXT fan back in the day, and when they made their Euro oil 0W-40, I didn't trust that zero, so I moved up to Castrol Edge (Formula R) 10W-60 and stayed there for the next ten years.
 
Lots of folks use idle flush additives to clean up problem engines, they are far safer to use than drive around oil scourers like MMO. Even if the oil filter blocked up the 10 minutes at idle the flush is in use it would be unlikely to do any real harm, although I've never heard of anyone using an idle flush blocking a filter.
 
Originally Posted By: SR5

Yes I believe they did. The Edge (Formula R) 0W-40 of the mid 90's was the replacement for the Castrol TXT 10W-40 of the early 90's. I have an old TXT bottle here and it lists "CCMC European Test Sequences G4, G5 and PD2. Mercedes-Benz all passenger cars. VW 500.00 and 505.00. Porsche Approved (Air & Water Cooled Engines). Jaguar Approved. Rover Group: BLS 22 OLO-06.07.09. BMW Special Oils Approved". It's also SG / CD and has some US military specs.

I was a big Castrol TXT fan back in the day, and when they made their Euro oil 0W-40, I didn't trust that zero, so I moved up to Castrol Edge (Formula R) 10W-60 and stayed there for the next ten years.

For those wondering, the CCMC-G4/G5 spec is the forerunner to the ACEA A3/B3 (or B4) spec we have today.

And the "BMW Special Oil" is, from what I can tell, the first "approved oil" specification BMW produced and recommended.
 
I was going to post a comment but I have to pop to the shops to stock up on tinned food, bog roll and iodine tablets...
 
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
I was going to post a comment but I have to pop to the shops to stock up on tinned food, bog roll and iodine tablets...


+1.
Classic.

I gotta go too, doomsday preppers is on in a minute.
 
Haven't seen "Bog Roll" on the internet ever I think.

That was a lookshurie when I was a lad...My Grandad had a fruit and veg shop, and the apples came wrapped in wax paper (green and red depending on varietal)...may as well have used cling wrap.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Haven't seen "Bog Roll" on the internet ever I think.

That was a lookshurie when I was a lad...My Grandad had a fruit and veg shop, and the apples came wrapped in wax paper (green and red depending on varietal)...may as well have used cling wrap.


It used to be ripped up pieces of yesterday's Express & Star on a wire hook when I was small! And the lav was outside without it's own light. But we were 'appy! (cue Monty Python)...

On a serious note, can I ask you a question? In another thread, you recently posted up a table of oil flow rates at two different rpm's for four different viscosity grades. Although the differences were small, the thickest oil gave the lowest flow. I've always assumed that a typical oil gear pump would push through a constant volume of oil for a given engine speed regardless of it's viscosity but your table said different. Any thoughts on why the differences in flow exist? Oil's not compressible so that can't be it. It could be that thick oil leaks more from the main bearings but I would have thought the flowrate would be measured directly after the pump so that's unlikely. I know some badly designed oil pumps can leak as the back plate flexes so that might be it. Or it might be something to do with the oil swelling in volume as it traverses the main bearing and increases in temperature.

Any thoughts?
 
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: chrisri
That is true however did those oils meet ACEA or earlier CCMC or any OEM official approval? Were they only API SH, SJ lubricants?
Minimum HT-HS and "stay in grade" requirements were relevant back then too, just they are today.

All petrol sequences (A1,A2, A3-96) were higher spec'd than SJ.

For this reason 10w40 were de facto most popular grade 20 years ago.


Yes I believe they did. The Edge (Formula R) 0W-40 of the mid 90's was the replacement for the Castrol TXT 10W-40 of the early 90's. I have an old TXT bottle here and it lists "CCMC European Test Sequences G4, G5 and PD2. Mercedes-Benz all passenger cars. VW 500.00 and 505.00. Porsche Approved (Air & Water Cooled Engines). Jaguar Approved. Rover Group: BLS 22 OLO-06.07.09. BMW Special Oils Approved". It's also SG / CD and has some US military specs.

I was a big Castrol TXT fan back in the day, and when they made their Euro oil 0W-40, I didn't trust that zero, so I moved up to Castrol Edge (Formula R) 10W-60 and stayed there for the next ten years.

It was a genuine question, I haven't starting anything. Really can't remember those back then in my local (northern Adriatic-Croatia,Italy). Maybe up north in colder climates?
I can tell you, if they were available they must have been mega expensive for sure. Even today OEMs requires 5w30/40 (Euro makes).
Cheers.
 
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