Does anyone know if this is a REAL synthetic oil, or not so as is Castrol Syntec ?
Shell Rotella 05w40 Synthetic at WalMart
- Thread starter carlsberg1664
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Group III+. Good oil.
Quattro Pete, would you mind explaining what Group lll+ means? Is it REAL Synthetic ? I appreciate your responses
Would you mind explaining what REAL synthetic is? 
Group III+ is an advanced hydrockracked oil base.
Group III+ is an advanced hydrockracked oil base.
Its like Castrol Syntec with a much better ad package. Only in America are grp III oils sold as synthetic.
Its an awesome oil though.
Its an awesome oil though.
Thank you Quattro Pete and Gunatics_Adler !
Just bought three gallons to put in a 2005 Viper.
dnewton3
Staff member
carlsberg1664 - welcome!
As you're (relatively) new here (perhaps been lurking?), you'll have to realize that at times, not all things are so simple to answer.
The word "synthetic" is a marketing term, commonly applied in the North American lubricant industry to group III, IV or V base stocks.
Some would argue that because PAO (poly-alpha-olefin) oils were the "original" "synthetic" oils to the mass market, they are the only "real" synthetics.
However, legally, any of the three, or any blend of those three, base stocks can be called and marketed as "synthetic". So, in my mind, "yes" it is a true synthetic. I accept the premise that "synthetic" is a marketing term, not a scientific one. If people want to split hairs regarding characteristics of the lubes, then they should use better definitions of the base stocks, and use the proper terminology of the group base (II, II+, III, IV, V). It's not at all your fault that some people cannot seperate the two concepts. But it gets beat down at least once a month around here in some manner.
I accept what the industry legally accepts; "synthetic" can be group III, IV or V.
If you're new to the site, do some searches and read on; you'll begin to understand the difference.
In the end, performance is the most telling of the true ability of a lubricant. RTS is a fine and respected product; turns in great UOA data, especially for the money spent.
As you're (relatively) new here (perhaps been lurking?), you'll have to realize that at times, not all things are so simple to answer.
The word "synthetic" is a marketing term, commonly applied in the North American lubricant industry to group III, IV or V base stocks.
Some would argue that because PAO (poly-alpha-olefin) oils were the "original" "synthetic" oils to the mass market, they are the only "real" synthetics.
However, legally, any of the three, or any blend of those three, base stocks can be called and marketed as "synthetic". So, in my mind, "yes" it is a true synthetic. I accept the premise that "synthetic" is a marketing term, not a scientific one. If people want to split hairs regarding characteristics of the lubes, then they should use better definitions of the base stocks, and use the proper terminology of the group base (II, II+, III, IV, V). It's not at all your fault that some people cannot seperate the two concepts. But it gets beat down at least once a month around here in some manner.
I accept what the industry legally accepts; "synthetic" can be group III, IV or V.
If you're new to the site, do some searches and read on; you'll begin to understand the difference.
In the end, performance is the most telling of the true ability of a lubricant. RTS is a fine and respected product; turns in great UOA data, especially for the money spent.
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Darn good oil but pricy for a GPIII but if it is made from slack wax as some suspect it may be worth the price.
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Darn good oil but pricy for a GPIII
It's cheaper than Pennzoil Platinum, which is also group III.
Darn good oil but pricy for a GPIII
It's cheaper than Pennzoil Platinum, which is also group III.
I know what you are looking for with that question. No, it is not a REAL synthetic but it is a [censored] fine oil and your vehicle will run forever on it. Group numbers don't mean as much as add packs and Rotella has a stout add pack.
dnewton3
Staff member
Where in the world is the logic to these contradictory statments? I'm not trying to pick on you, but I just can't see the sense in these statements.
" No, it is not a REAL synthetic ... "
and
" Group numbers don't mean as much ... "
You are condeming the RTS product for not being a "REAL synthetic" (presumably you are inferring that only PAO products are "real" synththics), and then you turn right around and say group numbers don't mean much? I understand you're complimentary of the RTS add pack, but your dismissal of the group base stock is simply at complete odds with your proceding statement. Those two concepts cannot co-exist!
RTS is an outstanding product; likely we agree on that. It is a group III synthetic. It is not a group IV synthetic, nor a group V synthetic. But it IS a "real synthetic", because that is a legally accpeted, industry recognized marketing term.
I agree that, as a group III syntheic, it's add-pack and base stock combine to produce stellar results, especially when you consider it's priced less that group IV products. It's is NOT a group IV, but it can perform as well as them. But it is as "real" in it's "synthetic" nomenclature as the other two groups.
If I misunderstood you, then I owe you an apology for being confrontational; not my intent. Just don't understand where those two oposing viewpoints meet up.
" No, it is not a REAL synthetic ... "
and
" Group numbers don't mean as much ... "
You are condeming the RTS product for not being a "REAL synthetic" (presumably you are inferring that only PAO products are "real" synththics), and then you turn right around and say group numbers don't mean much? I understand you're complimentary of the RTS add pack, but your dismissal of the group base stock is simply at complete odds with your proceding statement. Those two concepts cannot co-exist!
RTS is an outstanding product; likely we agree on that. It is a group III synthetic. It is not a group IV synthetic, nor a group V synthetic. But it IS a "real synthetic", because that is a legally accpeted, industry recognized marketing term.
I agree that, as a group III syntheic, it's add-pack and base stock combine to produce stellar results, especially when you consider it's priced less that group IV products. It's is NOT a group IV, but it can perform as well as them. But it is as "real" in it's "synthetic" nomenclature as the other two groups.
If I misunderstood you, then I owe you an apology for being confrontational; not my intent. Just don't understand where those two oposing viewpoints meet up.
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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Darn good oil but pricy for a GPIII
It's cheaper than Pennzoil Platinum, which is also group III.
PP is cheaper. $19 for 5 quarts of PP, $19 for 4 quarts of RTS.
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Darn good oil but pricy for a GPIII
It's cheaper than Pennzoil Platinum, which is also group III.
PP is cheaper. $19 for 5 quarts of PP, $19 for 4 quarts of RTS.
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Where in the world is the logic to these contradictory statments? I'm not trying to pick on you, but I just can't see the sense in these statements.
" No, it is not a REAL synthetic ... "
and
" Group numbers don't mean as much ... "
You are condeming the RTS product for not being a "REAL synthetic" (presumably you are inferring that only PAO products are "real" synththics), and then you turn right around and say group numbers don't mean much? I understand you're complimentary of the RTS add pack, but your dismissal of the group base stock is simply at complete odds with your proceding statement. Those two concepts cannot co-exist!
RTS is an outstanding product; likely we agree on that. It is a group III synthetic. It is not a group IV synthetic, nor a group V synthetic. But it IS a "real synthetic", because that is a legally accpeted, industry recognized marketing term.
I agree that, as a group III syntheic, it's add-pack and base stock combine to produce stellar results, especially when you consider it's priced less that group IV products. It's is NOT a group IV, but it can perform as well as them. But it is as "real" in it's "synthetic" nomenclature as the other two groups.
If I misunderstood you, then I owe you an apology for being confrontational; not my intent. Just don't understand where those two oposing viewpoints meet up.
Yeah I think you misunderstood me. I was being a little sarcastic. Technically group III oils are not real synthetics because they were not completely derived in a lab. I got the feeling that was what he was asking. BUT, having said that, Rotella is a great oil with a stout add pack. It is one of my favorites in fact.
I just wanted to tell the original thread starter that it is not a REAL synthetic by most people's definitions, but it is still a great oil.
Where in the world is the logic to these contradictory statments? I'm not trying to pick on you, but I just can't see the sense in these statements.
" No, it is not a REAL synthetic ... "
and
" Group numbers don't mean as much ... "
You are condeming the RTS product for not being a "REAL synthetic" (presumably you are inferring that only PAO products are "real" synththics), and then you turn right around and say group numbers don't mean much? I understand you're complimentary of the RTS add pack, but your dismissal of the group base stock is simply at complete odds with your proceding statement. Those two concepts cannot co-exist!
RTS is an outstanding product; likely we agree on that. It is a group III synthetic. It is not a group IV synthetic, nor a group V synthetic. But it IS a "real synthetic", because that is a legally accpeted, industry recognized marketing term.
I agree that, as a group III syntheic, it's add-pack and base stock combine to produce stellar results, especially when you consider it's priced less that group IV products. It's is NOT a group IV, but it can perform as well as them. But it is as "real" in it's "synthetic" nomenclature as the other two groups.
If I misunderstood you, then I owe you an apology for being confrontational; not my intent. Just don't understand where those two oposing viewpoints meet up.
Yeah I think you misunderstood me. I was being a little sarcastic. Technically group III oils are not real synthetics because they were not completely derived in a lab. I got the feeling that was what he was asking. BUT, having said that, Rotella is a great oil with a stout add pack. It is one of my favorites in fact.
I just wanted to tell the original thread starter that it is not a REAL synthetic by most people's definitions, but it is still a great oil.
dsmith41 you are correct.I wanted to know if it was REAL synthetic (like Mobil 1) (man-made,no dino) Thanks to all who responded!
Originally Posted By: carlsberg1664
dsmith41 you are correct.I wanted to know if it was REAL synthetic (like Mobil 1) (man-made,no dino) Thanks to all who responded!
PAO base stocks are a man made copy of dino oil.
dsmith41 you are correct.I wanted to know if it was REAL synthetic (like Mobil 1) (man-made,no dino) Thanks to all who responded!
PAO base stocks are a man made copy of dino oil.
Originally Posted By: carlsberg1664
dsmith41 you are correct.I wanted to know if it was REAL synthetic (like Mobil 1) (man-made,no dino) Thanks to all who responded!
Mobil 1 is not a true "REAL synthetic".
dsmith41 you are correct.I wanted to know if it was REAL synthetic (like Mobil 1) (man-made,no dino) Thanks to all who responded!
Mobil 1 is not a true "REAL synthetic".
chevrofreak, Does Mobil 1 contain dino ?
Group III is NOT synthetic in any way shape or form except in advertising. Group IV and Group V base oil (synthetics) are chemically made from uniform molecules with no paraffin and don't need Viscosity Additives. However, in recent years Group III (3) based oils have been labeled "synthetic" through a legal loophole. In Europe it is not legal to advertise a Group III as synthetic. A Group III that is advertised as Synthetic in North America is a Group II that has had the sulfur refined out making it more pure and longer lasting. Better than a Group II for sure but not nearly as good as a Group IV. And most certainly not synthetic.
Group IV oils are compatible with petroleum based oils and fuels plus they have better seal swell than petroleum based oils. Typically PAO (Group IV) based motor oils use no Viscosity Additives yet pass the multi-grade viscosity requirements as a straight weight! This makes them ideal under a greater temperature range. One advantage of not having to employ Viscosity Improving additives is having a more pure undiluted lubricant that can be loaded with more longevity and performance additives to keep the oil cleaner longer with better mileage/horsepower.
So to answer your question: Is it a true synthetic? No. Is it an advertised synthetic Group III like Castrol Syntec? Yes.
Group IV oils are compatible with petroleum based oils and fuels plus they have better seal swell than petroleum based oils. Typically PAO (Group IV) based motor oils use no Viscosity Additives yet pass the multi-grade viscosity requirements as a straight weight! This makes them ideal under a greater temperature range. One advantage of not having to employ Viscosity Improving additives is having a more pure undiluted lubricant that can be loaded with more longevity and performance additives to keep the oil cleaner longer with better mileage/horsepower.
So to answer your question: Is it a true synthetic? No. Is it an advertised synthetic Group III like Castrol Syntec? Yes.
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