Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Let's not forget that nearly all PAO products (like Mobil 1 and the other brands) use some Group II+ or Group III in them.
Brewmaster talked of PAO benefits, but not the limitations. Let us understand the PAOs do NOT hold additives in suspension nearly as well as lower group oils. So, while the viscosity attributes of PAOs might be appealing at face value, they do not do much, if anything, for anti-agglomeration (co-joining of soot and insolubles), nor do they hold detergents as well. Yes, PAOs are excellent at temperature response (cold) and resistance (heat), but they stuggle if not assisted, to do other things.
So, there is no really "pure" PAO on the market. To varying degrees, they all have some amount of group II+ or III added to them to help hold the add-pack toghether.
I am willing to understand that some people want to split hairs with the wording of "man-made versus dino". But look deeper, and realize that they are all man made products! Show me ANY lubricant that comes straight from the place of origin, and is put in a crankcase or transmission, with zero assistance from human intervention? Folks, ALL lubricants are manipulated by man; they have different base stocks, add-packs, viscosity ranges, etc. Every single product we discuss here is "man made". Why? Because they are products marketed to a target audience; the expectations of performance dictates how much of chemistry "A" and how little of chemistry "B" are needed to satisfy particular criteria.
Even your precious PAO group IV products would fail in everyday long-term use without the blended assistance of dino fluids helping to carry the add-pack. Just like in life, it takes cooperation to make the world go around.
So, when someone says they want a "real synthetic" I have to chuckle, because they really have no idea what they want, nor how to get it.
If they were to say: "I want a high quality lubricant that has a base stock capable of extended OCIs without the assistance of bypass filtration, with a robust additive package assisted by lower group oils to hold everything in suspension, for a blend that will resist oxidation, flow well at extreme cold temperatures, hold insolubles at bay, scrub out previous remnants, and provide great wear protection. What oil should I get?"
Here the correct answer is "get a PAO based group IV oil like Mobil 1, Amsoil, etc."
But someone could also ask: "How can I get these same performance criteria, with lesser cost?"
The answer is a group III product, with more VIIs to mimic the viscosity of a PAO base stock. Consider RTS or Syntec or SynPower or PP, etc."
They are all blends to some degree; the question becomes
1) what do you "want"?
2) what do you "need"?
3) what are you willing to pay for it?
As I said in my first post of this thread; there are those that understand "synthetic" is a marketing term and there are those that do not. To call one product "real" is to infer the other is not. "Real synthetic" is a term that holds no value, because nothing on the mass market is "pure PAO" anyway.
The problem we all stuggle with is in looking for quick answer to a question that really is factually challenged. We're attempting to provide a simple, single sentence reply where none can suffice. How do you answer a question (is it a "real synthetic?"), when the question does not define what the expectation of the words "real" and "synthetic" are supposed to mean?
If the OP asked "Does RTS have the same marketed methodology for compsition as other high end PAO-based products?" We'd all say "no".
But when the OP asks if RTS is a "real synthetic", they we all have to play this game going round and round about what the words "real" and "synthetic" mean.
The problem isn't with the answers; the problem lies in the question!
In addition to all this, you can tell by the charts in the following article just how close GIII bases are to PAO performance
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=533
You can see that while not exactly the same as PAO in performance, GIII oils are much nearer to PAO in key properties than they are to GII oils. At some point it becomes the splitting of gnat hairs, and we are pretty close to being there.
