Shell Helix Ultra GTL (PPPUPPP?)

[KL31]

Has anyone used Shell Helix Ultra 5W40 or Pennzoil Platinum Pure Plus Plus Ultra Performance Perfect Package blah blah equivalent of the Shell?

I've noticed the best start up smoothness of any oil I've used. Starter motor really feels like it's free spinning the engine far easier than any other oil I've used. Aside from that, sure the engine is running smooth and powerful but nothing greatly better than any other oil I've used before but also cannot think of an oil that felt better either...

This is the GTL version.

Oils I've used for the past 60,000kms

Castrol Edge A3/B4 5W30
Nulon Long Life 5W30
Shell Helix HX7 10W40 (worst)
Formula Shell 5W30
Mobil Super Synthetic 5W30

 

[THafeez]

I have pennzoil ultra 5w30. Engine is very quiet and car sounds good. I don't know if it helps with gas mileage, but I'll find out in a couple months

 

[PolarisX]

We noticed a big drop in start up noise on the Malibu going from dealer bulk [censored] to Pennzoil Ultra.

 

[SR5]

Hey KL31,
Yes I have used GTL Shell Helix Ultra 5W40 in my car, in my view:

Pro's
Best value full synthetic 40 weight in Australia
Lots of OEM specs SN, A3/B4, BMW LL-01, MB 229.5, Porsche A40, Ferrari, VW, RN
It seemed to clean my engine nicely, going by looking down the fill hole.
Starts nicely and runs smooth

Cons
When parked for 10 minutes or so at the shops, it seems to drain down quickly, and made the engine very tappy on second start.

I had a Repco filter on at the time and that filter seemed quite restrictive, which may have contributed to the noise. I have another 5 L of SHU in my stash, and I plan to try it again with a less restrictive filter like a Cooper or a Valvoline syn-blend media filter.

It's definitely a good oil, the premium Shell product, it just may not have suited my car as much as the Magnatec 10W30 (semi-syn, SN, A3/B4) which is smoother, quieter and less expensive.

A mate runs it in his hot hatch Renault and his A-class MB and thinks it's great, no warm start tap-tap issues with his cars.

We purchased a 3 x 5L pack direct from the Shell distributor and it was much cheaper than the retails stores, better than 50% off regular price.

 

[Torrid]

I might try Ultra next time. I've been using PYB since I rarely get over 6k miles at year long intervals but I'll likely hit 8k this year and that may be pushing it on conventional in a V8,

 

[AirgunSavant]

I run pyb consistently to 8k in a 2L 4 cylinder.
No issues.



Originally Posted By: Torrid
I might try Ultra next time. I've been using PYB since I rarely get over 6k miles at year long intervals but I'll likely hit 8k this year and that may be pushing it on conventional in a V8,

 

[turboseize]

I use Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40 in two Saab H-engines (B202XL and B205E). No issues...

 

[JFAllen]

In April this year I bought a 2002 plated (built 2001) Saab 9-5 2.3t Wagon with 150,000kms on it (not knowing about the sludge issues that effect(s)ed these.) Anyway it's now got 163,500kms on it and I've been doing 5000kms (3k mile) oil changes using either Helix Ultra 5W30 ECT C3 or Helix Ultra 5W30 AG (both of which are Dexos2 rated, which succeeds the old GM: 'LL-A-025' spec.) I also dropped the sump and pulled the cam cover to gave them both a serious clean at 155,000kms after reading about the issues (my cam cover wasn't too bad, but the sump was close to being a serious problem. Previous owner had replaced the turbo at 130,000kms, I suspect as a result of oil contamination flogging out the bearings.)

Like any good owner I did a service when I bought the car, (oil was black like tar.) After reading about the issues, my process for oil changes on this car are as follows.

1: Having driven the car to ensure oil is at operating temperature, jack it up and drain the oil and remove the filter.
2: Remove the oil cooler and drain it. On a B235 engine this holds close to 1L of oil. So if you leave it in, you only replace at best 80% of the oil. I honestly feel that this is a significant contributing factor to the sludge issues encountered on these engines!!!!
3: Let it drain over night.
4: Refil with whatever oil you can get 5L for ~$10AUD on special (often Valvoline 10W40/20W50, Castrol GTX 10W40 or Nulon 10W40,) and a clean filter. With the oil cooler removed the system takes a full 5.0 L so no wastage

but no spare

5: Drive the car to ensure the oil is at operating temperature, then conduct an 'Oil Flush' using your choice of oil flush. (Wynns/Penrite/Amsoil/Nulon/Gulf Western/Repco/LiquiMoly...) I just usually buy what's on special.
6: Repeat steps 1, 2 and 3. (No drive around required after the oil flush of course,) Leaving it drain over night yields an additional ~250ml of oil. Be amazed at how much blacker oil that is less than an hour oil comes out.
7: Remove cam cover and blot the oil out of the galley's using a rag or paper towel
8: Refil with Shell Helix Ultra 5W30 Dexos2 spec oil and a new filter.

-Since beginning the regime I have noticed a significant increase in fuel economy (down form ~8.8L/100kms --> ~7.2L/100kms on the highway and >12L/100kms --> 100kms in the city.)
-Also I've noticed a significant reduction in oil consumption from 1L per 2500kms --> 800ml per 5000kms.
-At @3750kms since my last oil change now and if doing a dip stick inspection and letting it drip on a paper towel, it looks like a dark tea, still translucent. Previously it was going black very quickly.
-When I bought the car there was lifter tick on cold mornings. That is now no longer the case

I know Helix ultra isn't the silver bullet here. The mechanical cleans of the sump and cam cover in addition to the "very fastidious" oil change regime are key components. I've also been doing a great deal of highway driving of late as I tend to use my bicycle around town. Still Helix Ultra has been working to clean the inside of my engine, improve ring seal, reduce friction and pumping losses. The end result is cleaner oil, less oil being burnt, and better fuel economy. The very low NOACK number and high Viscosity index of GTL oil is the first reason I looked into Helix Ultra in an effort to limit oil vapours.

I'm a convert and now use it in my 330RWkW CA18DET powered race car (5W40 or 10W60,) my L18 powered 180b Datsun (5W40) and also whenever I service a friends car (whatever manufacture spec is required) unless they specifically request another brands product. I'll also continue to use and recommend it in the future with any car i purchase.

Few other brands (Mobil and BP/Castrol spring to mind) have the vertical integration and engineering budget of Royal Dutch Shell, where they have complete control over base stock production, additive production along with OEM's and race teams to test and develop the oils.

Off the shelf Helix Ultra 5W40 and 0W40 (sold in the America's PP 5W40 Euro and PUP 0W40) are both certified for Indy car use (0W40 is simply a newer formulation) and its this oil (that you can buy down the road) that was in the 2016 Championship winning car.

Good enough for Scuderia Ferrari F1,
Good enough for Penski Indy and Nascar
Good Enough for Audi at the 24 24H LeMans
Good Enough for **** Johnson Racing
Good Enough for Hyundai WRC

It's good enough for me

and probably you to.

Shell are putting the $$ into GTL and this new product. I honestly think it's worth using and buy it retail (though admittedly only when it's on 20% or better special. Good oil is expensive in Australia.)

 

[SR5]

Welcome JFAllen,
Cracker of a first post. Sounds like you are cleaning that engine up nicely. Yes GTL oil is very good stuff.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: JFAllen
In April this year I bought a 2002 plated (built 2001) Saab 9-5 2.3t Wagon with 150,000kms on it (not knowing about the sludge issues that effect(s)ed these.) Anyway it's now got 163,500kms on it and I've been doing 5000kms (3k mile) oil changes using either Helix Ultra 5W30 ECT C3 or Helix Ultra 5W30 AG (both of which are Dexos2 rated, which succeeds the old GM: 'LL-A-025' spec.) I also dropped the sump and pulled the cam cover to gave them both a serious clean at 155,000kms after reading about the issues (my cam cover wasn't too bad, but the sump was close to being a serious problem. Previous owner had replaced the turbo at 130,000kms, I suspect as a result of oil contamination flogging out the bearings.)

Like any good owner I did a service when I bought the car, (oil was black like tar.) After reading about the issues, my process for oil changes on this car are as follows.

1: Having driven the car to ensure oil is at operating temperature, jack it up and drain the oil and remove the filter.
2: Remove the oil cooler and drain it. On a B235 engine this holds close to 1L of oil. So if you leave it in, you only replace at best 80% of the oil. I honestly feel that this is a significant contributing factor to the sludge issues encountered on these engines!!!!
3: Let it drain over night.
4: Refil with whatever oil you can get 5L for ~$10AUD on special (often Valvoline 10W40/20W50, Castrol GTX 10W40 or Nulon 10W40,) and a clean filter. With the oil cooler removed the system takes a full 5.0 L so no wastage

but no spare

5: Drive the car to ensure the oil is at operating temperature, then conduct an 'Oil Flush' using your choice of oil flush. (Wynns/Penrite/Amsoil/Nulon/Gulf Western/Repco/LiquiMoly...) I just usually buy what's on special.
6: Repeat steps 1, 2 and 3. (No drive around required after the oil flush of course,) Leaving it drain over night yields an additional ~250ml of oil. Be amazed at how much blacker oil that is less than an hour oil comes out.
7: Remove cam cover and blot the oil out of the galley's using a rag or paper towel
8: Refil with Shell Helix Ultra 5W30 Dexos2 spec oil and a new filter.

-Since beginning the regime I have noticed a significant increase in fuel economy (down form ~8.8L/100kms --> ~7.2L/100kms on the highway and >12L/100kms --> 100kms in the city.)
-Also I've noticed a significant reduction in oil consumption from 1L per 2500kms --> 800ml per 5000kms.
-At @3750kms since my last oil change now and if doing a dip stick inspection and letting it drip on a paper towel, it looks like a dark tea, still translucent. Previously it was going black very quickly.
-When I bought the car there was lifter tick on cold mornings. That is now no longer the case

I know Helix ultra isn't the silver bullet here. The mechanical cleans of the sump and cam cover in addition to the "very fastidious" oil change regime are key components. I've also been doing a great deal of highway driving of late as I tend to use my bicycle around town. Still Helix Ultra has been working to clean the inside of my engine, improve ring seal, reduce friction and pumping losses. The end result is cleaner oil, less oil being burnt, and better fuel economy. The very low NOACK number and high Viscosity index of GTL oil is the first reason I looked into Helix Ultra in an effort to limit oil vapours.

I'm a convert and now use it in my 330RWkW CA18DET powered race car (5W40 or 10W60,) my L18 powered 180b Datsun (5W40) and also whenever I service a friends car (whatever manufacture spec is required) unless they specifically request another brands product. I'll also continue to use and recommend it in the future with any car i purchase.

Few other brands (Mobil and BP/Castrol spring to mind) have the vertical integration and engineering budget of Royal Dutch Shell, where they have complete control over base stock production, additive production along with OEM's and race teams to test and develop the oils.

Off the shelf Helix Ultra 5W40 and 0W40 (sold in the America's PP 5W40 Euro and PUP 0W40) are both certified for Indy car use (0W40 is simply a newer formulation) and its this oil (that you can buy down the road) that was in the 2016 Championship winning car.

Good enough for Scuderia Ferrari F1,
Good enough for Penski Indy and Nascar
Good Enough for Audi at the 24 24H LeMans
Good Enough for **** Johnson Racing
Good Enough for Hyundai WRC

It's good enough for me

and probably you to.

Shell are putting the $$ into GTL and this new product. I honestly think it's worth using and buy it retail (though admittedly only when it's on 20% or better special. Good oil is expensive in Australia.)

and Happy New Year.
Experiential post you have.

 

[slybunda]

Isnt the helix ultra ag a low saps oil?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: JFAllen
Off the shelf Helix Ultra 5W40 and 0W40 (sold in the America's PP 5W40 Euro and PUP 0W40) are both certified for Indy car use (0W40 is simply a newer formulation) and its this oil (that you can buy down the road) that was in the 2016 Championship winning car.

Good enough for Scuderia Ferrari F1,

You're making a fine choice, but for that specific application, they use bespoke lubes. Nonetheless, the only real issue is finding the product at times.

Very few retailers carry the Pennzoil Euro grades here, but things are slowly getting better. It doesn't help that the regional Pennzoil-Quaker State distributor is asleep at the switch.

 

[JFAllen]

Originally Posted By: slybunda
Isnt the helix ultra ag a low saps oil?


The oils I use are Low/mid SAPS (0.8%.) In an engine (Saab B235e) that's prone to sludge, ensuring there is less ash upon oil being burnt/cooked can only be a good thing.

I know that certain Motorsports get specific oil (Nascar for example, due to there flat tapped extreme load valve trains.) But others are required to use off the shelf products (Indy Car for example.) In any event, what Shell/Mobil/BP/Total (the big guys) learn racing, makes its way to us. And with Shell/Pennzoil, you know that the Base stock that is used is the same across the board. GTL oil from the Pearl plant in Qatar. It's that base oil that I want in my engines. Few other major oil companies are so forward about their choice of base stock. I don't want an ultra low TBN race oil in my car that falls apart after 500 kilometers; I want a well engineered, robust product, designed for its application that goes the distance. THere are numerous products on the market that will do this for me from most major oil companies, and boutiques, however this product has worked for me in my applications, both on the race track and on the street.

I, like others feel that Shell GTL based products are worthy of my hard earned. Also in Australia they are often priced at or below the competition (especially in the Dexos2 (5W30) and LL-01 (5W40) spec.) I know others have other opinions, based on their experience and I respect that. That's what's great about this discussion board.

 

[slybunda]

Does low saps mean more wear? Shell lubematch website recommends the helix ultra ag for my aygo which uses the 1kr-fe engine. But i use regular full saps oil since this forum says it gives less wear than low saps stuff.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: slybunda
Does low saps mean more wear? Shell lubematch website recommends the helix ultra ag for my aygo which uses the 1kr-fe engine. But i use regular full saps oil since this forum says it gives less wear than low saps stuff.

From memory a low / mid SAPS C3 oil has the same or better wear requirements than the high SAPS A3/B4 oil. But some, have reported the high SAPS oils last longer (see below, from recent thread on ZDDP). The low SAPS is to protect the exhaust system, rather than the engine.

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
When I was playing around with ZDDPs, you would see a big difference between 800ppm and 1200ppm of ZDDP on tests that were in some way related to oil oxidation. Tests like the Sequence IIIF/IIIG which primarily looks at viscosity increase, the Sequence VG which looks at an oil's propensity to drop out sludge and the various Teost tests which measure the tendency to form deposits at high temperature all tend to improve the more ZDDP you have in your oil.



That reflects my observations with Mid-saps oils in petrol engines, lots more deposits on the same oil change intervals compared to A3/B4 oils. Despite mid-saps oils alledgedly having more stable base oil mixes.


It's a good question, and worthy of it's own thread.

 

[JFAllen]

Also to be aware of is that mid and low SAPS oils tend to have lower TBN values, as the European fuel they are speced with is generally ultra low sluphur. Thus requiring less base to hold grade over time.

If you deplete the TBN in any oil you're looking for trouble.

As far as boundry additives. Moly and boron based additives are taking tje place of the ZDDP, but are more expensive. Thus the higher costs often associated with OEM spec low saps products.