"Senseless Ambiguity of NA Turn Signals"

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Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
I say if the free market wants it like this, then so be it! The automotive industry does not need more regulations.



I'm not going to get into the political debate around regulation, but I don't agree that it's a "free market" when it comes to brake lamps. A given car comes with one design. Maybe if you're lucky there's a slightly different version for one of the trim levels (e.g. hybrid).

Styling is highly subjective, but lights and indicators are safety items first and foremost. I think too many design studios are forgetting that.


So you support going back to 7" sealed beams as well?
 
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
So you support going back to 7" sealed beams as well?

Glass headlamps would certainly eliminate the problem with plastic headlights that get hazy (and are often NOT buffed out by the car owner).

But that's an era of front ends that we need not revisit
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Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
So you support going back to 7" sealed beams as well?

Masterful use of the strawman...

Suggesting that there should be rules that make indicators an "alert/warning" sign rather than a flashing "danger" sign, the first instance of which COULD be a brake application before it's a turn signal is NOT the same as suggesting that a flagman walks 10 feet ahead of the car, and the driver uses universal hand signals out the window.

Turn signals that aren't brake lights make perfect sense...regulating for same is not diminishing that free market at work...any more than mandating brake lights is diminishing the free market.
 
So I watched the whole video...the guy is annoying and makes much ado over nothing. Having combo brake lights/turn signals have been around forever and everyone is well adapted to seeing and understanding them. We already have the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS) and section 108 addresses vehicle lighting. Every vehicle complies with the standard. If he really wants vehicles to change to separate bulbs, he needs to focus his attention to them and have them change the standard instead of chastising the automakers.

And be goes on and on about reduced safety...I often see vehicles with all if their brake lights burned out except the 3rd brake light in the middle. And it's ALWAYS a vehicle that uses separate bulbs for the turn signal. That's because on vehicles that use the combo brake light/turn signal, the turn signal will flash rapidly when the bulb is burned out, alerting the driver. Vehicles that have separate bulbs will flash the turn signal normally, since the turn signal bulb still works. Meanwhile, all of the brake lights are burned out and the driver is oblivious. Of course if drivers just checked their bulbs every once in a while like they're supposed to, it wouldn't be an issue, but people are idiots and don't do it.
 
I have watched several of his videos in the past, they are OK.

I do agree that having separate amber turn and red brake/running lights is more visible, and wish more vehicles did it.
 
Originally Posted By: exranger06

And be goes on and on about reduced safety...I often see vehicles with all if their brake lights burned out except the 3rd brake light in the middle. And it's ALWAYS a vehicle that uses separate bulbs for the turn signal.


I've seen cars (Trailblazers come to mind) where the red turn signals still work but only the CHMSL shows brake. There's something askew in the turn signal or hazard switch not letting the brake current through.

Look on rockauto, 2057 bulbs are like 17 cents in bulk. They could do this.

In traffic when a car 1.5 cars ahead of me in another lane is partially blocked by a car behind him, I can often only see my side's lights. Its deciding to brake, and its deciding to enter my lane, are both important facts I need to be briefed on separately.
 
dont see any reason to say one color for turn is better than an other. if its flashing ITS A TURN SIGNAL!!!!
 
Amber rear indicators which were once considered a special Euro car thing have now gone out of fashion and even high end Euro cars have all red indicators at the rear, taillights, brake lights and turn indicators are now all red.
I agree that amber used as a turn indicator does provide some useful differentiation, but fashion dictates that this color not be used.
Don't worry, it'll be back five years hence as a new bit of product differentiation.
 
Originally Posted By: red7404
dont see any reason to say one color for turn is better than an other. if its flashing ITS A TURN SIGNAL!!!!


Or someone in a Ford pickup tap dancing their brakes.
 
Originally Posted By: Kibitoshin
Originally Posted By: red7404
dont see any reason to say one color for turn is better than an other. if its flashing ITS A TURN SIGNAL!!!!


Or someone in a Ford pickup tap dancing their brakes.


Yup, tapping the brakes while turning creates a confusing signal. Not as bad with a working CHMSL but a lot going on just the same. If you're in traffic in the middle lane of a 3-lane highway and you're the lucky guy/lane moving 25 mph and there are 0-5 mph cars on both your left and your right, someone's going to try breaking in from either side and you need full communication in the smallest amounts of time.
 
Originally Posted By: AVB
I never liked amber turn signals, you always had to have a converter box to hook up a trailer pigtail. These days with bcms controlling the lights, I guess it doesn't really matter.
I'm totally fine with buying a convertor box. If anything it should (could?) protect the tow vehicle wiring from any shorts in the trailer wiring harness.

I'll put my vote in for amber turns also.

Also, what with all the LCD's and control units in cars today, there really isn't much of a reason why they can't monitor "critical" bulb performance. And when one goes, flash a warning on the LCD. Heck you don't need a dedicated warning bulb in the instrument panel anymore.
 
Have you ever noticed that the smallest vehicles (POVs) have the largest tail lights/turn signals, and the largest vehicles (semis) have the smallest lights? Seems like it should be the other way around...
 
I've never had an issue seeing another car's turn signal regardless of color (even those who put illegal clear lenses on with clear bulbs).

Not using them at all, or putting them on as the car is turning is the issue here. Also, we don't need all cars to have blinding turn signals because people can't put down their phone. Some LED brake lights on cars already give me a headache if I am stuck behind them for a long time.
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
One pet peeve is that my German car has amber turn lights, but the amber color is handled by coloring the bulb. The lens is clear. The color has mostly flaked off the bulbs, so my turn signals are mostly white.


Why not just go buy new bulbs?


My Tiguan, has a spot for with an amber lens
2012-volkswagen-tiguan-tail-light.jpg


It's not even used at all for the US/Canadian Tiguans. It's the running light/brake light that is used as the turn signal.
 
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
My Tiguan, has a spot for with an amber lens
2012-volkswagen-tiguan-tail-light.jpg


It's not even used at all for the US/Canadian Tiguans. It's the running light/brake light that is used as the turn signal.


You can change that with a VAG-COM
smile.gif
 
I spent 11 years in Germany during my Army career, drove throughout Germany and Europe, and have to say that amber rear direction signals just make sense IMO. Much more noticeable particularly in lower visibility conditions. In Germany at least, amber rear direction signals are required by law. A US automaker exporting to Germany must fit them to the vehicle before it can be sold. I am not aware of that requirement changing. I also don't know why many European car makers, exporting to the US are now fitting them with red direction signals. I don't believe there is any US or state law dictating what color rear direction signals must be other than a car must have rear direction signals.
 
Amber in both the Corolla and the Sierra...red in the LeSabre...which is the only car out of the 3 to have a dash board warning that comes up after the signal light has been engaged too long without being cancelled. Think old person at the wheel..forgets to shut off blinker for miles and miles and miles and then it sounds about right.
 
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Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
Amber in both the Corolla and the Sierra...red in the LeSabre...which is the only car out of the 3 to have a dash board warning that comes up after the signal light has been engaged too long without being cancelled. Think old person at the wheel..forgets to shut off blinker for miles and miles and miles and then it sounds about right.


How does that work? I mean, if you can't see the flashing yellow light on the dash, are you going to see the solid yellow one instead?
 
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