Seizing Lug Nuts = Worn Wheel Bearings?

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Globalksp

Globalksp

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My 2007 Honda Fit has needed to have 3 wheel studs replaced; two on the passenger front axle and one on the driverside front. I found the lug nuts on these “bad” studs to act as if they were crossthreaded (they would break loose, unscrew a few turns, then lock) when attempting to rotate the tires during oil changes. Therefore, the passenger side issues were found 7,000 miles before the driver’s side. I’ve had the studs replaced and all is well, but I’m curious why this is occurring as I’ve never experienced this issue before with other vehicles (Honda and otherwise). The guy who drives the airport shuttle where I park my car is also a mechanic (certified Ferrari to boot!) and when talking to him about this, he mentioned that heat could be the issue and that my wheel bearings could be heating up, causing the studs to heat up, expand (and contract), thus warping them. Curious if anyone else has experienced this or has thoughts on the theory. Cheers, K
 
The bearings would have to be getting red hot to cause that even if it were possible. Never seen that personally and I have seen smoking bearings when the vehicle arrived at my dads shop for repair. The bearings were also making horrendous noise at anything about 60km/hr It is weird though. shrug
 
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I’m a fan of simple answers and this is interesting. I don’t use a torque wrench when tightening my lug nuts, but never tighten them down too hard since I hate when a shop uses an air wrench to do the job and over tightens them. I guess it will be a game of wait and see as I don’t foresee myself dropping the cash to have the bearings checked. -K
 
His warping scenario doesn't jibe with the condition you experienced. I can tell you I've changed two bearing units (which had discolored) and their lug hardware wasn't effected. Sounds more like a zone of threads got fatigued with time (and corrosion) and finally gave up the ghost. While we all know "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" maybe replacing them all would've been a smart thing to do.
 
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: Globalksp
I don’t use a torque wrench when tightening my lug nuts
It’s time to start using one.
Duly noted.
 
Originally Posted By: Kira
His warping scenario doesn't jibe with the condition you experienced. I can tell you I've changed two bearing units (which had discolored) and their lug hardware wasn't effected. Sounds more like a zone of threads got fatigued with time (and corrosion) and finally gave up the ghost. While we all know "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" maybe replacing them all would've been a smart thing to do.
That’s a good point and one that was overlooked by both the shop and myself. It makes me miss my previous mechanic in NJ who, I feel, would have suggested the same. He had a way of pointing out and suggesting the obvious to me. Thanks for taking up that role today.
 
Had that exact same thing happen to a Chev van a few years ago. And I use a torque wrench. Had to replace the stud on a fairly new vehicle at about 30,000 kms. OE sourcing of cheap parts is my theory.
 
Originally Posted By: Globalksp
I’m a fan of simple answers and this is interesting. I don’t use a torque wrench when tightening my lug nuts, but never tighten them down too hard since I hate when a shop uses an air wrench to do the job and over tightens them. I guess it will be a game of wait and see as I don’t foresee myself dropping the cash to have the bearings checked. -K
It just sounds like your studs have been abused, if you can deal with them in the short term, get the worst ones replaced next time you have brakes done. To check your bearings, go for a drive and try to stop without using your brakes hard and just feel what temp the centre of the wheels are. Slightly warm from braking is normal I think. Also for lugs you can get a $20 torsion beam torque wrench, spec'd torque seems to be frighteningly low to me, so I add 10ftlbs and call it good.
 
I wouldn't worry about your bearings. I also wouldn't believe a van driver who claimed to be a certified Ferrari technician, but that's just me... Most likely, as others have said, was threads being stretched/worn by too much torque and those distorted threads just don't provide the proper engagement of the nuts leading to loosening. I would just replace all of the studs and nuts. Seriously. A lot of work, but a loose wheel can ruin your whole day...
 
I hand torque my bolts and im sure they are overtorqued alot but never an issue. I have had lugs ridiculously overtorqued by shops though. So much so that i need to literally jump on the wrench to get the lugs undone.
 
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: Globalksp
I don’t use a torque wrench when tightening my lug nuts
It’s time to start using one.
+1 I would lean that it was over torqued and causing extra stress. That being said I would properly torque before going after wheel bearings. Wheel bearings typically have a different list of symptoms than hard lugs.
 
+1 On using a torque wrench. I've only ever had 1 bad lug on any vehicle. And that is the Nissan in my sig with almost half a million km on it. The wheels have been off a billion times, not always by me, so one of the lugs finally had it. I replaced all 6 on that hub and called it a day. Not sure how it is on a Honda but on mine, you have to take the wheel bearing/captive rotor off to do. So you may as well change them all because the labor cost would be a lot if you had to go back.
 
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Just want to make sure, are you still using the OE Honda wheel nuts with OE wheels?
Great question...I bought the car second hand, but as far as I know, excluding those new lug nuts that replaced the seized ones, yes. OE wheels and nuts.
 
Thanks all for your opinions and comments. The brakes will need to be done soon so I’ll consider having all the studs replaced then. As for the van driver, I feel the need to stick up for the guy, as silly as that sounds. I believe him 100% with his claim and that’s that. You never know the lives people have lived before we meet them and unfortunate things happen to good people sometimes so, yea.
 
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Any trouble with wheel lug studs is the result of some bozo over torquing the nuts and stretching the threads. On the Rat, they caused the the studs to strip their splines that keep them fixed in the hub. This combined with the stretched thread made removing the wheel very difficult, but allowed it to wobble. I ended up drilling a 1/8 hole in the face of the nut and splitting them with a cold chisel. Major PITA in my drive way, a tow job if the tire went flat. I don't use a torque wrench. I tighten the nuts with the tool I keep in the car. 3 stages in the star pattern. I'm less concerned with keeping the wheel on than I am in being able to get them off. grin2
 
Might be something to be said for using antiseize on lugs despite the dire warnings of wheels leaving on their own accord. I've been using antiseize for over 50 years and have yet to break or seize a nut/stud. OR LOOSE A WHEEL!! YMMV Smoky
 
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