At least that's what I seem to notice in reveiewing these UOA's. The German cars usually show far less and the US cars somehwere in the middle. At least that's my casual observation. Any conclusions form this? Longevity issues?
Seems like the Japanese UOA's usually show higher wear metals?
- Thread starter PaJohn
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I put 287,000 miles on an 87 Nissan Sentra, 220,000 miles on a 96 Sentra and my son has 140,000 on a 97 Altima and no engine problems, no oil burning what so ever in any of them. The Japanese make great motors.
Well, even if the wear is somewhat higher (which is not the rule IMO) for the Japanese, it means nothing apparently because their engines run forever anyway. They'll rust and die of other car "diseases" before the engine does. And this once again confirms the fact that, for the most part, we're just splitting hair here while in the long run it doesn't matter much.
FYI, I sold my '91 Nissan Stanza with 170K miles and still running like a champ. I doubt my A4 will live to see that many miles, and probably not because of engine, but other parts failing and getting expensive to maintain.
FYI, I sold my '91 Nissan Stanza with 170K miles and still running like a champ. I doubt my A4 will live to see that many miles, and probably not because of engine, but other parts failing and getting expensive to maintain.
Don't tell Cary that:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001765#000000
We generally see very low wear metals in Toyota and Subaru analyses especially.
Don't forget to calculate on a per 1,000 mile basis so you'll compare apples to apples.
Tim
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001765#000000
We generally see very low wear metals in Toyota and Subaru analyses especially.
Don't forget to calculate on a per 1,000 mile basis so you'll compare apples to apples.
Tim
How do you come to that conclusion?
I have been researching these UOA's for over a year now and don't see it.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001892
Daily Drives:
-2003 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner XtraCab, 2.7 Liter , Mobil1 Synthetic 5W-30.
ODO 10900Miles.
-1995 Toyota 4-Runner 3.0 V6, Mobil1 Synthetic 10W-30.
ODO 91900 Miles.
http://community.webshots.com/user/amkeer
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001892
Daily Drives:
-2003 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner XtraCab, 2.7 Liter , Mobil1 Synthetic 5W-30.
ODO 10900Miles.
-1995 Toyota 4-Runner 3.0 V6, Mobil1 Synthetic 10W-30.
ODO 91900 Miles.
http://community.webshots.com/user/amkeer
JHZR2
Staff member
take a look at my 94 toyota previa analysis that Ill be posting in a few minutes...
JMH
JMH
I disagree, check out the analysis on my Vibe with the 1.8l Toyota engine. http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001727
12,000 miles and the highest wear metal is iron at 1ppm/1000 miles. All others are almost non-existant. At that rate this engine will run forever.
12,000 miles and the highest wear metal is iron at 1ppm/1000 miles. All others are almost non-existant. At that rate this engine will run forever.
Honda V Tec engine is as or more efficent and prone to less wear than any Euro machine. I do now feel that its more engine specific than anything else.
PaJohn, While some of the new Honda V6's are spitting out lots of copper, most of them show incredibly low wear rates off the showroom floor. Any Toyota 1.8L or 4.7L, for instance, can be run 7500 mile OCIs without batting an eye, and still show next to zero wear metals. IMO, great engineering.
With all due respect, you need to dig deeper. As noted, especially with Toyota and Subaru, the results are usually very low. This trend is even more noticeable with particular engines, for example, Toyota's 2UZ 4.7L V-8 (which consistently produces near-zero results, wherever it's installed, be it in a Landcruiser, Sequoia, or Tundra) and the much maligned 1MZ 3.0L V-6 (the so-called "sludgemaker" engine, that with normal oil changes also produces fantastic results).
I have the father of the Toyota V6 sludgemaker, first introduced in 92 and after 12 years has had a few makeovers but basically the same engine. My ave lead in a dozen UOA at approx 7500 mile OCIs is 26 ppm. Now that is high but at 169,000 still runs fine and now consumes about a quart every 3-4000 miles.
High wear numbers do not always mean the engine will have a short life. It sure would be nice if someone could develop the formula specific to each engine that says hey, if iron is this and lead is this in X miles your engine is predicted to go X miles. Never happen.
High wear numbers do not always mean the engine will have a short life. It sure would be nice if someone could develop the formula specific to each engine that says hey, if iron is this and lead is this in X miles your engine is predicted to go X miles. Never happen.
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PaJohn: Thanks for trying to help us out but something is wrong with your observation. I've just looked over my recent UOAs on my two Sentras and I'm pleased to note that Blackstone finds them with wear metals below Universal Averages. Our earlier Sentras we no longer own each went well over 200k miles with no engine problems or oil loss problems whatsoever. Within our family are several Hondas that 200k seemed to be a milepost that didn't faze them at which they continued going strong with no engine problems and no oil loss or burning problems. Perhaps you can work up a spread sheet and post it for our use. Or, perhaps, as we've seen stated on this forum, wear metals indicated in UOAs aren't an indicator of engine longevity. But, then again, the Mitsubishi truck I had showed very good wear numbers in UOAs and I sold it at well over 200k miles and the new owner was very impressed at it's condition and he knew a lot about automobiles. It still didn't burn or lose oil. Again, however, we would find a spread sheet of your observations of interest and I thank you in advance for preparing one for us.
That's why I chuckle at those around here who wring their hands a few ppm.
Compare the Nissan Titan UOA's vs. the American V8's, the Nissan shows less wear even without being fully broken in. Also there is no piston slap(GM) or lack of power(Ford) associated with some dom. V8's, that after all are not really domestic at all since some are made in Mexico(Dodge hemi). I think i'd take my chances with a Japaneese engine over a German or American engine when it comes to longevity. Can you tell I really like my Titan LOL.
It seems to me that most any engine will last well past the point at which the rest of the car is ready for the junkheap. Usually a transmission failure, not an engine failure, dooms most cars to that fate.
Just a note,Dodge is actually owned by a German company.The same company as Mercedes.Dodge is actually Daimler(sp)-Chrystler.
Brianl703 hit on a point. Almost everybody who owns a car these days has had the "change your oil at 3k" pounded into their heads. Most of those people do so.
However, I'm guessing that 85% of those dilligent 3k oil changers totally neglect servicing their transmission fluid. This always amazes me since these days a transmission is a component that's going to cost as much, or sometimes more than an engine.
The auto manufacturers aren't helping things with the latest trend of "lifetime fill" fluids. Those lifetime fill transmissions for example will make it outside the warranty period, but will likely sting the second owner of the vehicle.
Good example, my neighbor has the same truck as I just sold, a '98 Chev. K1500 with a 4L60E transmission. Mine had 180k miles (5.7L engine) when I sold it to a friend last week, his had 100k miles (5.0L engine).
I changed my fluid every 45-50k miles, and he never changed his. I never had a day of trouble with my trans and it's going strong at 180k miles (with a more powerful engine), and his just failed last week at 100k miles.....just like his fuel pump (never changed the fuel filter).
Anyhow...I'm totally
but it just goes to show, the obsessive compulsive disorder when it comes to vehicle maintenance does pay off.
And I will agree that while the japanese v8's do produce less wear metals, the body will fall off both the japanese and the american trucks (if diligently maintained) long before the engines will wear out (assuming not intake manifold issues ....[thanks GM]). They are all being made a great deal better than they were.
However, I'm guessing that 85% of those dilligent 3k oil changers totally neglect servicing their transmission fluid. This always amazes me since these days a transmission is a component that's going to cost as much, or sometimes more than an engine.
The auto manufacturers aren't helping things with the latest trend of "lifetime fill" fluids. Those lifetime fill transmissions for example will make it outside the warranty period, but will likely sting the second owner of the vehicle.
Good example, my neighbor has the same truck as I just sold, a '98 Chev. K1500 with a 4L60E transmission. Mine had 180k miles (5.7L engine) when I sold it to a friend last week, his had 100k miles (5.0L engine).
I changed my fluid every 45-50k miles, and he never changed his. I never had a day of trouble with my trans and it's going strong at 180k miles (with a more powerful engine), and his just failed last week at 100k miles.....just like his fuel pump (never changed the fuel filter).
Anyhow...I'm totally
And I will agree that while the japanese v8's do produce less wear metals, the body will fall off both the japanese and the american trucks (if diligently maintained) long before the engines will wear out (assuming not intake manifold issues ....[thanks GM]). They are all being made a great deal better than they were.
The problem with your point is that you are refusing to consider the individual driving conditions that your neighbor’s 4L60E was subject to.
As far as I know, your 4L60E had a relatively “easy” life prior to your ownership, as the bulk of the miles was accumulated through long distance, highway driving. On the other hand, your neighbor’s 4L60E may’ve spent most of its life in city driving, and 100k may not have been a “poor” service life for the unit, depending on how hard he drove the vehicle and whether or not he pulled any loads.
In addition, the 4L60E or any GM Truck/SUV for that matter has never considered the 4L60E to be a “fill-for-life” transaxle. GM has always recommended a fluid/filter change every 50,000 miles if the unit is constantly operated in hilly terrain with temperatures > 90F, or if the vehicle is used for towing. Otherwise, the fluid/filter must be replaced every 100,000 miles.
Lastly, transmission fluids are improving on a near annual basis. Base oils are constantly being upgraded and additive packages are becoming better and better. Truth to be told, the "fill-for-life" claim is more legitimate today than it was 10 years ago, IMO.
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