Searching for an oil to use with my new build.

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I thought of that, but it's cheaper if I run it this way and I'm out of space for gauges.
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I've actually got two gauges down in the center and the door above it flips open to show a digital wide band display.

I only need to see the oil temp when running hard anyway. I also already have a mechanical oil pressure gauge. Had I been paying attention to it on track, I probably wouldn't have spun the bearing as the pressure goes way down when the oil heats up.
 
well simply mobil 1 is a 'thinner' 30wt... think about it... a THIN 30wt.... with the conditions you've described- thats bad!!

m1 10w30 = cSt @ 100ºC 10.0 !!!! (i'm going to be sick)
for reference
pennzoil 10w30 conventional is at the very least a 10.4 cSt oil

XD-3 Viscosity @ 100°C 15.17 cSt
I hope youre modifying your oil pump as well, you're going to need more presure. With that remote filter, there goes a few PSI down. Your oil pump pressure regulator valve will only adjust accordingly between the pump outlet and the filter inlet.
 
I've already stated that I'm losing oil pressure and getting rid of the remote/bypass filter. That's taken care of. There's not much you can do with the pumps. I can shim it so it does not bypass as much back to the pan.
 
Yes, I agree, however, the effort is now being put into keeping the oil cool.

I'm not going to run Mobil 1 again. I did want an explanation as if yout tell me something sucks, I want to hear the justification for saying it. That is all.

I don't need an all out race oil. They closed 3 of our tracks down here, so there is really not anywhere to race. Just something that can protect under hard use, other than track. It's hard to replicate track loads on the street. I will take the car to the drag strip this year, but that's no harder than me running through the gears on the street.

I do currently run Mobil 1 5w-20 in my '02 Honda Civic, but that car gets driven like a granny car.
 
I still say since Redline is too pricey to run in a street car unless you like spending money.

Run either Castrol 0w30 or Rotella Syn 5w40 whatever's cheaper or more available. Or run both and monitor hot oil pressure and tempa and see which works best. I would even go as far as running Castrol 5w50 for track days or all year round if it doesn't get extermely cold. Audi5000 I think runs Castrol 5w50 in his V6 Audi and the engine is so clean on the inside after years of driving and use. He has said it runs like it has since day one.

Ya I never liked Mobil 1 oils, to thin for my taste. This could have caused the spun bearing, to thin of an oil at that temp. meaning for no more oil cushion for the bearing to spin on and metal/metal contact for that split second. You know the rest, had a thicker oil been present you might have made it without any damage.
 
quote:
The reason that M1 10w30 is a poor choice for your use is that it shears badly at the oil tempratures you are experiencing.
Click to expand...
What a load horse manure. That SHO engine has a very high volume oil pump with tighter clearances/tolerances than a Corvette engine which can be run on the track with M1 10w30 no problems as long as you keep the oil temps in check.

Mobil 1 10W-30 HTHS 3.14 10 cSt @100ºC
Mobil 1 EP 10w30 HTHS 3.21 10.5 cSt @100ºC

In contrast GC 0w30 requires a 12.0 cSt @100ºC to achieve 3.6 HTHS, so the Mobil 1 isn't "shearing down" any worse than the GC.

What likely killed this engine is a lack of oil flow to the bearings and overheated oil.
 
yamahaSHO,

I would *definately* shim the pressure control valve! That's not even a question.

Regarding the "flow" of the oil pump. I've see many people buy high volume oil pumps for their cars, only to have them fail terribly, sometimes within 200miles. Why? Because volume is NOT an issue with (most) stock pumps!! Pressure and pressure relief are the problems. Say you have a high volume oil pump spinning at 7500-8000rpm, that pressure relief vavle is PEGGED open. The very last thing you'll need is more volume being pumped with nowhere to put it!! This will cause the rotor housing to bulge and with enough of that, there goes your clearances and/or a more catastrophic failure. I know a performance shop here that has dynoed the 2.5L Mazda V6 (KL) up to 11K rpm using the stock bottom end. Guess what is the only part to fail at those RPMs? Thats right the oil pump!!! They basically overpressurize and blow up. It seems that in terms of stock pumps and volume, theres plenty of supply! They now run a consistent dry sump setup and experience no problems whatsoever. I don't think volume is the problem, backpressure/oil pressure relief is.

[ February 17, 2006, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: the_oil_dealer ]
 
"What likely killed this engine is a lack of oil flow to the bearings and overheated oil."

I have to agree with that, although I disagree severely with the horse manure comment. The flow restriction had nothing to do with viscosity and everything to do with the bypass sytem.
For this application the poster has already come up with the appropriate solution of controlling oil temperatures and ditching the bypass which are the two primary causal factors

1- lack of volume due to bypass
2- Inadequate cooling capacity for the oil. Radiant cooling through the pan not keeping up with the heat soak

A contributing factor would be running too thin an oil knowing #2 above. Once those factors are resolved an oil can be chosen based on the new conditions.
 
quote:
M1 10w30 is a poor choice for your use is that it shears badly at the oil tempratures you are experiencing.
Click to expand...
The M1 10w30 is NOT "shearing badly at the oil temperature" any more so than a great number of other quality oils. It may have a slightly lower HTHS number than slightly thicker oils, but it's not "shearing badly".
 
It IS shearing badly.
It is not losing permanent viscosity (aka thining)but it is thinning alot in the high pressure high temperature experienced in the bearings. An oil with a higher HTHS would have more resistance to it and provide a film a little bit longer in this scenario.
With the lower HTHS the oil film failed and took the bearing out.
I am not saying it is a primary causal factor but a contributing factor it is. Mobil 1 is a high quality oil, heck I use it. But in this application the viscosity chosen was not up to the task and conditions.
 
Wrong again, my friend. Increasing the viscosity will not always guarantee a thicker film at the bearing, especially if the lack of flow is what is causing an overheated condition.

But don't believe me, look in the lubrication sections of general mechanical engineering books for the section on "viscosity seeking behavior".
 
That's why I stated that it is not the primary causal factor. I am not saying that a thicker oil would have prevented this failure.
The primary cause is the lack of oil flow do to the Bypass. However, if you are running these temperatures it is prudent to increase the viscosity until the temperature can be resolved.
 
This thread has some great feedback and I'm hopeful some new ideas emerge to help with the rod bearing failures. I've got the "track SHO" that Jason mentioned and have had a couple of rod bearing failures. I'm running a mix of 2/3 Mobil1 15W50 and 1/3 Mobil1 0W-40.

After the first failure, I installed a large tube fin oil cooler 7"x21" (Flexalite 3954 Cooler link )

The rod bearing failures seem clearly tied to oil temperatures and resulting low oil pressure. Coolant temps remain decent at around 220, but oil temps climb to 250+ as measured with a gauge intalled in bottom of oil pan.

At the last track event (following a full rebuild with a new crank), I backed off once oil temps hit 250 and the motor survived. What I did notice though was the relationship with oil temps and oil pressure. With oil temps below 220 degrees, the oil pressure was 50 psi by 2k RPM on up. But once oil temps hit 250 degrees, the oil pressure could not get past around 30 psi (even at 5k RPM).

I'm working on getting a larger oil cooler, this time with a plate cooler, so that I can run 20-30 minutes non-stop and keep oil temps down. But I'm also worried about the tremendous fall in oil pressure with higher temps. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

BTW - on the track the motor typically runs between 4k-8.5k RPM and has around 500 hp at the wheels.

Pics of the rebuild: rebuild photo

Pics of engine: Engine pics

Pics of oil and tranny cooler: Oil and Tranny cooler

So, should i consider runing a different oil for track use? Recommendations?
 
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