Yeah, I know it's a Camry....BUT IT'S A MANUAL!
Save the Manuals!!!
- Thread starter buster
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Four cars (need to sell one). The only one that isn't a manual is the truck, which is not available.
1992 BMW 535i 5 speed.
1996 Toyota Landcruiser - Automatic, manual never available in the U.S.
2002 BMW 530i 5 speed.
2008 Porsche Cayenne 6 speed.
1992 BMW 535i 5 speed.
1996 Toyota Landcruiser - Automatic, manual never available in the U.S.
2002 BMW 530i 5 speed.
2008 Porsche Cayenne 6 speed.
Originally Posted By: KitaCam
Yeah, I know it's a Camry....BUT IT'S A MANUAL!
So is ours. Sixth gear is a gimick (found out the other day that 5th is 0.875 while sixth is 0.733--what was the point of that?), but otherwise it's great. I can drive that around with the car loaded up, and I can think of only one hill that I downshift on. The auto version I drove was constantly doing something on flat ground with only me in it.
Yeah, I know it's a Camry....BUT IT'S A MANUAL!
So is ours. Sixth gear is a gimick (found out the other day that 5th is 0.875 while sixth is 0.733--what was the point of that?), but otherwise it's great. I can drive that around with the car loaded up, and I can think of only one hill that I downshift on. The auto version I drove was constantly doing something on flat ground with only me in it.
Originally Posted By: Cary
Four cars (need to sell one). The only one that isn't a manual is the truck, which is not available.
1992 BMW 535i 5 speed.
1996 Toyota Landcruiser - Automatic, manual never available in the U.S.
2002 BMW 530i 5 speed.
2008 Porsche Cayenne 6 speed.
Heh heh, "Never available in US." The only time I own an automatic is when the vehicle I need only comes that way. At least the F150 has a manual mode but alas no clutch.
IMO learning to drive a stick makes for a better, more aware driver. My next vehicle will be a stick, come [censored] or high water, unless it's a boat.
(NO that is not to say that automatic drivers are less aware, or that you can't have an better, more aware driver that has only driven an automatic, or any other variation that a BITOG lawyer would want to complain about)
Four cars (need to sell one). The only one that isn't a manual is the truck, which is not available.
1992 BMW 535i 5 speed.
1996 Toyota Landcruiser - Automatic, manual never available in the U.S.
2002 BMW 530i 5 speed.
2008 Porsche Cayenne 6 speed.
Heh heh, "Never available in US." The only time I own an automatic is when the vehicle I need only comes that way. At least the F150 has a manual mode but alas no clutch.
IMO learning to drive a stick makes for a better, more aware driver. My next vehicle will be a stick, come [censored] or high water, unless it's a boat.
(NO that is not to say that automatic drivers are less aware, or that you can't have an better, more aware driver that has only driven an automatic, or any other variation that a BITOG lawyer would want to complain about)
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Most of us can't shift a manual fast enough to get a better 0-60 time than a comparable automatic or CVT, but to me it's not about that at all. How often do you race from a stop light? At my age, never.
To me, manual trans and a clutch is just about being in full control and the connection that you feel with the vehicle.
To me, manual trans and a clutch is just about being in full control and the connection that you feel with the vehicle.
Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: KitaCam
Yeah, I know it's a Camry....BUT IT'S A MANUAL!
So is ours. Sixth gear is a gimick (found out the other day that 5th is 0.875 while sixth is 0.733--what was the point of that?), but otherwise it's great. .......................
I wish my vehicles had a 6th. My Cobalt cruises 2400 rpm at 70 (too low) but my VUE cruises 3200 rpm at 70 ( too high) . A 6th gear on those would be welcome.
What does your Camry cruise at in 5th vs 6th?
Originally Posted By: KitaCam
Yeah, I know it's a Camry....BUT IT'S A MANUAL!
So is ours. Sixth gear is a gimick (found out the other day that 5th is 0.875 while sixth is 0.733--what was the point of that?), but otherwise it's great. .......................
I wish my vehicles had a 6th. My Cobalt cruises 2400 rpm at 70 (too low) but my VUE cruises 3200 rpm at 70 ( too high) . A 6th gear on those would be welcome.
What does your Camry cruise at in 5th vs 6th?
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Most of us can't shift a manual fast enough to get a better 0-60 time than a comparable automatic or CVT, but to me it's not about that at all. How often do you race from a stop light? At my age, never.
To me, manual trans and a clutch is just about being in full control and the connection that you feel with the vehicle.
Most new automatics are more fuel efficient and provide better acceleration than manual transmission. It is nearly impossible to beat the spread they offer from 1st through 8th (or in few cases now 9th) gears of 7:1 (9.8:1 in the new ZF 9 speed box) that allow for fuel efficiency gains of up to 15% from a 6 speed automatic, and better acceleration. As the torque converter is only engaged from a dead stop and they lock up from second gear on, they don't have those losses. Finally, they are now able to skip through gears when shifting, so the delay there is gone, along with the incredibly smart shifting algorithms that almost always have them in the right gear.
Having driven some of the new autos that have most of these features as well as the dual clutch automated manuals, I have to say they are very impressive. They just don't do anything for me as a driver. After 25 years of driving stick shifts, I simply prefer them and don't find the alleged downsides (commuter traffic) to be an issue for me. I actually have more trouble in traffic with automatic, because it wants to shift up and keep rolling when I take my foot off the gas and I am used to the engine drag.
Most of us can't shift a manual fast enough to get a better 0-60 time than a comparable automatic or CVT, but to me it's not about that at all. How often do you race from a stop light? At my age, never.
To me, manual trans and a clutch is just about being in full control and the connection that you feel with the vehicle.
Most new automatics are more fuel efficient and provide better acceleration than manual transmission. It is nearly impossible to beat the spread they offer from 1st through 8th (or in few cases now 9th) gears of 7:1 (9.8:1 in the new ZF 9 speed box) that allow for fuel efficiency gains of up to 15% from a 6 speed automatic, and better acceleration. As the torque converter is only engaged from a dead stop and they lock up from second gear on, they don't have those losses. Finally, they are now able to skip through gears when shifting, so the delay there is gone, along with the incredibly smart shifting algorithms that almost always have them in the right gear.
Having driven some of the new autos that have most of these features as well as the dual clutch automated manuals, I have to say they are very impressive. They just don't do anything for me as a driver. After 25 years of driving stick shifts, I simply prefer them and don't find the alleged downsides (commuter traffic) to be an issue for me. I actually have more trouble in traffic with automatic, because it wants to shift up and keep rolling when I take my foot off the gas and I am used to the engine drag.
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I have the 5-speed and think I'd prefer 5 over 6 because it gives me a wider range of torque in each gear....easier around town with fewer shifts...
appx rpms....at actual speed, speedo +2mph
2350rpm @ 70
2700rpm @ 80
appx rpms....at actual speed, speedo +2mph
2350rpm @ 70
2700rpm @ 80
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When I got my Cruze, the manual was the way to go for the most fuel-efficient option. All in all, it's been a fun to drive car. The manual certainly plays a large part in that. Being able to redline the engine in 1st and 2nd to really get the car moving has come in handy more than once. On the flip side, the little 1.4T will gladly cruise at 1400 RPM at 45 mph on flat ground.
Our Fit's automatic sucks all the life out of that car. It's fun when it's in manual mode, but regular driving will downshift when a kangaroo sneezes in Australia.
Our Fit's automatic sucks all the life out of that car. It's fun when it's in manual mode, but regular driving will downshift when a kangaroo sneezes in Australia.
Every car in my signature is a manual. Would never have it any other way.
Originally Posted By: KitaCam
I have the 5-speed and think I'd prefer 5 over 6 because it gives me a wider range of torque in each gear....easier around town with fewer shifts...
appx rpms....at actual speed, speedo +2mph
2350rpm @ 70
2700rpm @ 80
EDIT:
2350rpm @ 60mph
2700rpm @ 70
3050rpm @ 80....sorry for the original post's error....
I have the 5-speed and think I'd prefer 5 over 6 because it gives me a wider range of torque in each gear....easier around town with fewer shifts...
appx rpms....at actual speed, speedo +2mph
2350rpm @ 70
2700rpm @ 80
EDIT:
2350rpm @ 60mph
2700rpm @ 70
3050rpm @ 80....sorry for the original post's error....
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Originally Posted By: buster
In some cars though (not many but a few) the AT's outperform the MT. For example, the Crosstrek CVT is better than the 5spd MT. Does that change your mind at all, or does the "fun factor" trump the CVT gains?
That is talking slow or slower, the Crosstrek is under powered.
In some cars though (not many but a few) the AT's outperform the MT. For example, the Crosstrek CVT is better than the 5spd MT. Does that change your mind at all, or does the "fun factor" trump the CVT gains?
That is talking slow or slower, the Crosstrek is under powered.
I used to be a pretty hard-line manual only kind of person. But when I'm honest with myself, if I'm driving in a performance setting all I really want is for the gearbox to be in the exact gear that I select.
I enjoy rowing my own, on a day to day basis there is a theraputic property to it unless I'm stuck in stop-and-go traffic. But I don't have a problem with a high quality auto gearbox that offers the driver complete control over the gear selection.
I enjoy rowing my own, on a day to day basis there is a theraputic property to it unless I'm stuck in stop-and-go traffic. But I don't have a problem with a high quality auto gearbox that offers the driver complete control over the gear selection.
75% of my fleet is manual.
The Sonata is the only outlier.
The Sonata is the only outlier.
i get it!!!! car and drive is doing comedy now. LOL LOL
Originally Posted By: Cary
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Most of us can't shift a manual fast enough to get a better 0-60 time than a comparable automatic or CVT, but to me it's not about that at all. How often do you race from a stop light? At my age, never.
To me, manual trans and a clutch is just about being in full control and the connection that you feel with the vehicle.
Most new automatics are more fuel efficient and provide better acceleration than manual transmission. It is nearly impossible to beat the spread they offer from 1st through 8th (or in few cases now 9th) gears of 7:1 (9.8:1 in the new ZF 9 speed box) that allow for fuel efficiency gains of up to 15% from a 6 speed automatic, and better acceleration. As the torque converter is only engaged from a dead stop and they lock up from second gear on, they don't have those losses. Finally, they are now able to skip through gears when shifting, so the delay there is gone, along with the incredibly smart shifting algorithms that almost always have them in the right gear.
Having driven some of the new autos that have most of these features as well as the dual clutch automated manuals, I have to say they are very impressive. They just don't do anything for me as a driver. After 25 years of driving stick shifts, I simply prefer them and don't find the alleged downsides (commuter traffic) to be an issue for me. I actually have more trouble in traffic with automatic, because it wants to shift up and keep rolling when I take my foot off the gas and I am used to the engine drag.
Even with all these supposed "advantages" these still don't offer the control that a true manual does, and of course when those
modern computerized auto 9 speed transmissions need repair, you are going to be raped on the costs.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Most of us can't shift a manual fast enough to get a better 0-60 time than a comparable automatic or CVT, but to me it's not about that at all. How often do you race from a stop light? At my age, never.
To me, manual trans and a clutch is just about being in full control and the connection that you feel with the vehicle.
Most new automatics are more fuel efficient and provide better acceleration than manual transmission. It is nearly impossible to beat the spread they offer from 1st through 8th (or in few cases now 9th) gears of 7:1 (9.8:1 in the new ZF 9 speed box) that allow for fuel efficiency gains of up to 15% from a 6 speed automatic, and better acceleration. As the torque converter is only engaged from a dead stop and they lock up from second gear on, they don't have those losses. Finally, they are now able to skip through gears when shifting, so the delay there is gone, along with the incredibly smart shifting algorithms that almost always have them in the right gear.
Having driven some of the new autos that have most of these features as well as the dual clutch automated manuals, I have to say they are very impressive. They just don't do anything for me as a driver. After 25 years of driving stick shifts, I simply prefer them and don't find the alleged downsides (commuter traffic) to be an issue for me. I actually have more trouble in traffic with automatic, because it wants to shift up and keep rolling when I take my foot off the gas and I am used to the engine drag.
Even with all these supposed "advantages" these still don't offer the control that a true manual does, and of course when those
modern computerized auto 9 speed transmissions need repair, you are going to be raped on the costs.
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