Sarin shell found was binary

[flynavydiesel]

Heard this today and wonder why the press has not jumped all over this. Oh yeah, they are liberal and anything that helps prove Bush was even remotely right would be bad.

Remember that shell that was detonated and they found traces of sarin? Well it was a binary shell, 2 substances inside the shell, when it is fired it rotates and mixes the substances making in this case sarin. The reason it did not kill anyone was the shell was used as an IED and the chemical's did not mix properly but mixed during the explosion so the amount of sarin made was minimal. The amount in that shell was enough to kill approx 10,000.

 

[MolaKule]

What, the Leftist Empire did not report this story???

 

[Durrr]

quote:

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Originally posted by flynavydiesel:
The amount in that shell was enough to kill approx 10,000.

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I heard, if blown up in a stadium, it would be enough to kill everyone inside :\

 

[Mystic]

And that is one shell. Highly unlikely the terrorists in Iraq just happened to come across the last two rounds in Iraq. Some 500 mustard gas rounds and something like 100 tons of sarin gas were never located.

The 'good' stuff might be in Syria.

 

[flynavydiesel]

sarin is nasty stuff!! I agree that the was not the last shell in Iraq. Remember the Iraqi air force buried some of their fighters and jets for Saddam in the desert. So when the war was over they could dig them up and use em again. Lot of land out there, and good hiding places.

 

[1sttruck]

It's a story, but even Rumsfield has stated that until the tests confirm it it's not WMD. See also

http://www.adn.com/24hour/iraq/story/1384978p-8631094c.html

 

[Mystic]

Have news for you. That shell was tested and it is sarin gas.

 

[iontrap]

Remember you're supposed to cover your eyes and ears and keep repeating to yourself "It's a lie and a conspiracy perpetrated by the Bush administration."

 

[flynavydiesel]

My sources are not news media. It was sarin and a large dose of it.

 

[Last_Z]

Fox News reported those news today. It is official.....the tests were done and it was indeed Sarin. Not a lot of commotion from CNN and the others though.

 

[1sttruck]

See below. In the article that I posted previously the former Marine artillery officer and weapons inspector noted that observation and communication of a few details would clarify the origin and state of the shell.

At the Pentagon, Brig. Gen. David Rodriguez (search), deputy director of operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that the 155-millimeter artillery shell was made by the Iraqis before the 1991 Gulf War. The source of the bomb is still under investigation.

While its apparent age would mean it can't be regarded as evidence of recent Iraqi chemical weapons production, some analysts worry the shell may be part of a larger stockpile of Iraqi chemical weapons now in the hands of insurgents, but no more have turned up.

 

[Durrr]

doesnt matter when it was made, just the fact that it was saddam's and it was in country. *shrug*

 

[mormit]

quote:

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Originally posted by Durrr:
doesnt matter when it was made, just the fact that it was saddam's and it was in country. *shrug*

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You guys are really reaching.......It does matter when it was made. Next you'll find utility blades in Iraq and claim it as proof of Iraqi involvement in 9/11.

This was indeed reported throughout the media. Not just Fox but CNN, CBS, NBC, CNBC, even NPR. They all reported this shell that was manufactured back when Saddam was our buddy did indeed contain sarin.

This does not indicate that there was an active WMD program when GWB claimed there was.....only when his dad was president or earlier.

[ May 26, 2004, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: mormit ]

 

[Durrr]

he had it in country. he knew it was there, he hid it. some insurgents found it, didnt know what it was, and used it. his old WMD didnt get grandfathered in before UN sanctions, he was suppoed to have zero, zilch, nada in country. He did. whether he had active programs is irrelavent.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by Durrr:

quote:

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Originally posted by flynavydiesel:
The amount in that shell was enough to kill approx 10,000.

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I heard, if blown up in a stadium, it would be enough to kill everyone inside :\

---

The people that design and deploy chemical weapons with they were 1/10 as effective as your imaginative source says they are.

Bullchit numbers like 10,000 kills typically are calculated by dividing the amount of chemical agent in a weapon by the 50% leathal dose. In the real world, a weapons officer would be real happy to get a 1% efficent distribution of the agent.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by 1sttruck:

At the Pentagon, Brig. Gen. David Rodriguez (search), deputy director of operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that the 155-millimeter artillery shell was made by the Iraqis before the 1991 Gulf War. The source of the bomb is still under investigation.

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It's interesting to note that 155mm arty is a western caliber, soviets using 152mm for equivilant work.

Perhaps the source of the shell is sensitive enough that the administration doesn't want it to become public knowledge. Or maybe it was just from South Africa, Iraq did have South African arty. Iraq had a bunch of South African 155mm howitzers.

But, since the admininistration hasn't declaired success on finding Sadams WMD program, it tends to make me think there is something unpleasant about the source of the shell, I doubt they would be trying to shield South Africa.

[ May 26, 2004, 11:26 PM: Message edited by: XS650 ]

 

[1sttruck]

From a previous link.....

What gives away whether the shell had been fired is the base-bleed charge, which unlike the rest of the shell, will show evidence of being fired (or not). Iraq declared that it had produced 170 of these base-bleed sarin artillery shells as part of a research and development program that never led to production. Ten of these shells were tested using inert fill - oil and colored water. Ten others were tested in simulated firing using the sarin precursors. And 150 of these shells, filled with sarin precursors, were live-fired at an artillery range south of Baghdad. A 10 percent dud rate among artillery shells isn't unheard of - and even greater percentages can occur. So there's a good possibility that at least 15 of these sarin artillery shells failed and lie forgotten in the Iraq desert, waiting to be picked up by any unsuspecting insurgent looking for raw material from which to construct an IED.

Given what's known about sarin shells, the U.S. could be expected to offer a careful recital of the data with news of the shell. But facts that should have accompanied the story - the type of shell, its condition, whether it had been fired previously, and the age and viability of the sarin and precursor chemicals - were absent. And that's opened the door to irresponsible speculation that the shell was part of a live WMD stockpile. The data - available to the ISG - would put this development in proper perspective - allowing responsible discussion of the event and its possible ramifications.

Given that the U.S. is in the midst of a contentious presidential campaign, it's essential that accurate data about Iraq be available to the electorate. The handling of the sarin shell incident is the greatest justification yet for shutting down the ISG, and the immediate return to Iraq of U.N. weapons inspectors - if for no other reason than to restore a vestige of credibility to a disarmament effort that long ago lost its moral compass.

 

[Mystic]

Let me tell you what worries me about this sarin nerve gas round. It was unmarked (that is insanity). It was probably deliberately unmarked so that it could be hidden among conventional rounds. Chemical rounds should have special markings. It and the mustard gas round probably were not the last two rounds in Iraq-what are the mathematical chances of that happening? The terrorists just happened to pick out the last two rounds?

Probably these rounds are hidden among conventional rounds. It would have been necessary for U.N. inspectors to test every single round to see if it was conventional or chemical.

The mere existence of these two chemical rounds shows that there were still chemical weapons in Iraq. Remember, something like 100 tons of sarin gas was never accounted for, and some 500 mustard gas rounds were never accounted for.

And the 'good' stuff could have been buried somewhere or shipped out of country.

 

[sub_zero]

Very well said 1st.

If it was indeed a fully developed projectile for the CG 45 Gun System it would have the base bleed charge. It would have been very interesting to inspect the projectile closely. One measely projectile produced before the '91 routing - IMO doesn't constitute the threat of WMD. Saddam deployed this weapon against Iran during EIGHT YEARS of fighting, there are bound to be some lying around in artillery ranges and old battlefields.

As for chemical weapons the US has almost 40,000 tons of blister and nerve agent (1997).