Must have some unusual weight distributionI found my truck in 2WD and my RWD 300 did better in the snow than my minivan, caliber, or Kia ever did
RWD? FWD? AWD? What's best in snow, by how much?
- Thread starter Ws6
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Having had RWD, FWD and AWD vehicles here in Southeastern Wisconsin both with and without winter tires I’d say my opinion is that the tires make up the largest portion of the difference. My old RWD BMW was very good in the snow with good winter tires as long as the ground clearance was sufficient.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
BMW’s RWD are always better than your average RWD bcs. weight distribution.
Even xDrive is almost 50/50.
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
While an interesting test, I don't think this was a very good one for a couple reasons.
1. Testing max lap time on a race course in the snow isn't so realistic. I think for those who live in snow areas aren't giving it 100% the beans all the time and never stopping. You're stopping at intersections and stop signs. I would have liked to see the acceleration difference from a stop, but it sounds like Tesla is AWD only in a straight line.
2. The weight distribution of a Tesla is very different than regular cars. There's no single engine in the front, its weight is low and press throughout the car.
I think a good test would be my '96 Jeep Cherokee in RWD, 4x4, and then removing the rear driveshaft and running it in FWD only.
Edit: To clarify, I think my old Jeep would do HORRIBLE in RWD in the snow.
1. Testing max lap time on a race course in the snow isn't so realistic. I think for those who live in snow areas aren't giving it 100% the beans all the time and never stopping. You're stopping at intersections and stop signs. I would have liked to see the acceleration difference from a stop, but it sounds like Tesla is AWD only in a straight line.
2. The weight distribution of a Tesla is very different than regular cars. There's no single engine in the front, its weight is low and press throughout the car.
I think a good test would be my '96 Jeep Cherokee in RWD, 4x4, and then removing the rear driveshaft and running it in FWD only.
Edit: To clarify, I think my old Jeep would do HORRIBLE in RWD in the snow.
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Tires hands down is the most important factor in snow.
I have been genuinely impressed with how good the Grand Marquis is in the snow
Kia was the touchiest but generally did okay if I didn’t have to also plow snow with the front bumper, the Caliber as you know is… well the nicest thing about it was it kept you warm and dry.The minvan I can get, all the weight over the wrong end. The Caliber, well it's a Dodge (sorry, can't help myself), the Kia I can't explain.
How touchy were/are they on the throttle? My truck had a touchy throttle, heavy tip-in, and I found it hard to drive in the snow, if not in 4WD. Slow responding throttle has its place.
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Speaking of the Caliber, one year I was shoveling or doing something my backyard, when I could hear someone stuck (wheels spinning, etc). Behind my house were some rentals (lakefront), and I was able to gather that she was down there cleaning up the house, after being rented out. Caliber of a FWD sort, with obligatory bald tires. I hopped in and had it unstuck in moments. She thanked me. Hour later I heard the same thing going on (apparently she had to go out for cleaning supplies or lunch or something). She kinda gave me a disgusted look as I went and did a repeat performance...
That was the same house that one year was rented to some people with an accent I can't place (Russian, or that part of the world). One of them had one those AMG SUV's, I think I looked it up and it was one of those 500hp affairs. Complete with performance tires, middle of winter, and an unplowed dirt road. I think I helped get it unstuck once but they basically got it stuck again in a few feet, then gave up for the evening (the booze was already flowing I could tell). Apparently you cannot overcome lack of tires with horsepower.
Both Grand Caravans (2004 and 2018) do okayish. Maybe my problem is my driveway slopes up towards the road and anything FWD will either fall flat on its face or understeer into the mailboxes across the street. The 300 and Ram you could get a bit of a running start, then induce a bit oversteer and get out no problem. The 300 had 50/50 or 51/49 weight distribution which helped a lot.
Out on flat roads FWD and RWD IMO are about the same. I much prefer oversteer to understeer though. In this picture my wife thought she’d get out no problem, instead she got it stuck right there and I had to go dig it out
We've had most all of the different vehicles and drive systems over 50 years. About the best was my wife's '93 Jeep GC 4wd with a about all transfer/trans options. With the good snows would never get that thing stopped. She gave it to her sister in Duluth and the same for her with more snow than here. Now her winter beater is a 2005 Honda crv awd with the newer/softer winter tires. Much the same result. We've had 50" of snow half way through the winter this year. The cars could do ok, but getting high centered was the problem in deep snows.
Yes if I recall correctly it was 51/49.
ROI on the new tires wasn't even considered. The OEM Toyo tires were worn and I decided that with winter approaching I needed something better. So far, the Conti Extreme Contacts have been OK.
As I mentioned in my post the biggest challenge had been getting traction on snow covered roads that were very steep. The Toyos seemed to load up with snow very quickly and just spin. And yes, stopping on those steep streets was also a big concern.
My first winter up here I was heading downhill towards my house in about 2" of fresh snowfall. And going a bit too fast. I stepped on the brake, felt the ABS engage and was rapidly heading towards the trees. Luckily the road flattens out into a cul-de-sac at the end and I was able to steer the car enough to make a U turn and then crawled back up the hill with a death grip on the steering wheel the whole time.
Lesson learned: slow down to a crawl first ! And better tires were probably needed.
Yup.....Tires tires tires....
Which wheels are driven does not mean much about weight balance.
It is good indication but neither BMW nor Mazda MX-5 have "All the weight [...] up front."
Krzyś
Unless it's deep. Tried busting through a plow mound in my '64, pan bottom was like a toboggan and floated up on top with those swing axles hanging in the air. Corvairs were good in snow also.The rear engine, RWD original VW bug is the absolute best possible. How do you think the snow plow driver gets to work?
In my experience 99% of “AWD” vehicles have 2 wheels driving and 3 at most if you count the front brake forcing the opposing tire to kick briefly while the other spins.
My 2wds with positive traction are about as good as an open AWD with mediocre “traction control “ and usually are easier to control.
Now if you have lockers then yeah you actually have 4wd but almost nobody has that.
It seems like every vehicle I see in the ditch is a Jeep, Jacked up pickup or SUV.
So if AWD is so terrific it doesn’t appear to help them from Leaving the road any time there is a 1/4” of snow or a little ice.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
In places where it isn't mandatory, a large portion of those vehicles don't get fitted with snow tires because their owners think that with AWD or 4x4, they don't need them.
Good video. Unfortunately, real-world scenarios are rarely the same as a controlled experiment on track but at 9:15 he does mention FWD is better for the street (aka, normal drivers) as it tends to regain traction just by lifting off the throttle. It looks like the snow is powdery and every pass he ends up packing the snow down and making tracks. IME, packed snow has always had better traction for racing around a snow/ice track than dry snow as long as the packed snow doesn't ice over. If the snow is "wet" then even better.
Anywhoo, it's a good comparison video and does show how little the differences can be in ideal conditions. In less than desirable conditions, AWD all the way.
Anywhoo, it's a good comparison video and does show how little the differences can be in ideal conditions. In less than desirable conditions, AWD all the way.
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Most part time 4wd are the same way, open diffs front and rear. But with added benefit of a “locked” transfer case, so driveline binding can be counted on in the turns.
But having just one wheel on each axle hard connected is better than the “slip and grip” AWD IMO, no sense blowing a way traction on one wheel before deciding to send torque elsewhere.
I’ve driven my RWD truck and suburban through 30”
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Audi, BMW (except Haldex, “fake BMW’s”), Meecedes, Subaru, some VW’s etc. all have permanent AWD with mostly 40/60% distribution.
Even FWD based AWD have some % engaged at city speeds. On interstates, at higher speeds, that is irrelevant.
