RWD? FWD? AWD? What's best in snow, by how much?
- Thread starter Ws6
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My Jeep usually has only one or two brakes working at any given time. Sometimes it's the right rear drum, sometimes it's the left front caliper. Some times it's no wheel stop.
I grew up with RWD cars, have owned a few FWD with snows, a 4x4 Jeep with all weathers, and now own two AWD with snows.
There really is no comparison. The RWD's with all seasons wouldn't go anywhere without a lot of effort. FWD with snows is just fine most of the time but you can still get stuck if you go a little bit off the beaten path. Same with the Jeep really unless maybe if you had full on winters and lockers. With the modern AWD and snows though I honestly don't think I could get stuck if I tried. It is impressive, and very confidence inspiring.
There really is no comparison. The RWD's with all seasons wouldn't go anywhere without a lot of effort. FWD with snows is just fine most of the time but you can still get stuck if you go a little bit off the beaten path. Same with the Jeep really unless maybe if you had full on winters and lockers. With the modern AWD and snows though I honestly don't think I could get stuck if I tried. It is impressive, and very confidence inspiring.
It is superior for sure with snow tires over anything else unless you are talking about needing big-time ground clearance.
nope. Tires, bcs. braking is the MOST important factor in the winter. Everyone knows how to slam brakes, but something needs to stop you, and those are tires.
Gotcha yeah that weight in the back surely made a huge difference.
That's been my experience as well.
My point of saying driver is....don't have to slam on your brakes in the first place. I realize that is somewhat fantasty land but there is truth to it and you can't control all variables but hyper-defensive driving makes up for a whole lot of winter driving issues.
Living in MD where we got snow, several feet at times, and also East Tennessee where we had steep hills, the Best I’ve had was a manual transmission AWD. BUT, this AWD was center-driven with a differential dividing front-rear torque, not a FWD with rear wheel limited slip assist. I’ve also owned several 4WD vehicles, and they did not fare as well, especially controlling downhill descents.
i also find that both uphill and down, a manual transmission provides much better traction management than an automatic. don’t let that pass you by … downhill matters too, and arguably matters more.
anyway, that center-diff-loaded AWD outperformed solid 4x4 vehicles - it was more sure footed both up and down hill. But, most systems aren’t like that.
agree with so many of these posts. Generally AWD > FWD > RWD, notably on hilly terrain. Caveat, AWD systems do vary.
in most, say 80% of roads I used, FWD was enough. It was the hill climbs where AWD became the discriminating factor.
my little FWD Gen1 Volvo s60 with non-performance wheels and tires was a wonderful runner-up in snow-goat mode. The best was that 97 Subaru AWD 5MT. Between the two, I’d rather own the Volvo.
i also find that both uphill and down, a manual transmission provides much better traction management than an automatic. don’t let that pass you by … downhill matters too, and arguably matters more.
anyway, that center-diff-loaded AWD outperformed solid 4x4 vehicles - it was more sure footed both up and down hill. But, most systems aren’t like that.
agree with so many of these posts. Generally AWD > FWD > RWD, notably on hilly terrain. Caveat, AWD systems do vary.
in most, say 80% of roads I used, FWD was enough. It was the hill climbs where AWD became the discriminating factor.
my little FWD Gen1 Volvo s60 with non-performance wheels and tires was a wonderful runner-up in snow-goat mode. The best was that 97 Subaru AWD 5MT. Between the two, I’d rather own the Volvo.
I think that a lot of people here don't completely understand how their car functions. First the brakes are set up for dry road braking where much of the vehicle's weight is transferred to the front tires. Ever notice that the front brakes are much larger than the rear? The front tires lock up first on slippery roads due to a lack of weight transfer on those roads. This is where a 4x4 will have a slight braking advantage using threshold braking.
Next ABS reduces brake lockup to provide some ability to turn with the brakes full on. The effectiveness depends on the vehicle. For example, a 1997 Pontiac GTP will take about twice the distance to stop in ABS mode on dry pavement compared to threshold braking, while a Ford, Porsche or BMW will stop in virtually the same distance driven either way. Yes, I experienced exactly this in a BMW performance driving school while driving the only GM car in the school.
4x4's have a problem when both braking hard and tight turning in that the lightly loaded rear wheels will tend to slide and cause the truck to spin. It's because the rear tires follow a tighter turning circle than the front. All wheel drive cars generally avoid this combined turning/braking issue.
Next ABS reduces brake lockup to provide some ability to turn with the brakes full on. The effectiveness depends on the vehicle. For example, a 1997 Pontiac GTP will take about twice the distance to stop in ABS mode on dry pavement compared to threshold braking, while a Ford, Porsche or BMW will stop in virtually the same distance driven either way. Yes, I experienced exactly this in a BMW performance driving school while driving the only GM car in the school.
4x4's have a problem when both braking hard and tight turning in that the lightly loaded rear wheels will tend to slide and cause the truck to spin. It's because the rear tires follow a tighter turning circle than the front. All wheel drive cars generally avoid this combined turning/braking issue.
I'm not following how being a 4x4 or not impacts weight transfer on a slippery road when you get on the brakes.
the Subaru 5MT would have had a viscous-coupling in the center differential, which by default is 50:50 and iirc, can send up to 70% to either end.
The problem with the viscous coupling is the silicone fluid dries up over time and there goes the coupling effects.
I have to take you guys on the next snow run. Bring your coat and gloves.
I don't think that's necessarily the takeaway. Stopping requires an interaction of the brakes and the tires. It doesn't really help at all with stopping. Getting more traction at each wheel helps a ton. I saw a RWD pickup just spin its wheels, but if it could drive all wheels it probably would have gotten traction in the front. AWD gets one moving - that's for certain. If one wheel slips, the others may not.
It only impacts braking if all wheels are locked together. Then weight transfer is more or less moot, all wheels turn or all wheels lock. But how many trucks have lockers on both axles and in the transfer case? I haven't checked but possibly only the Mercedes G has it in some versions?
4WD
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I’m finding that in NL rentals as well - but by making an early request I can get AWD with winter tires …
(smaller stuff like Focus or Rav) …
4WD
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I’ll have to avoid 1997 Pontiacs going forward …
4WD
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My Jeep can run several combinations - but good luck steering with all 3 in lock up … I can barely make a turn in mud when fully locked …
Seems in some modern AWD vehicles you can consider the manual use of 8/10 speed automatics to get some light compression braking … Again, as mentioned above - gotta know your driveline/brakes - many here do - but today‘s soccer mom’s can reach for the “slippery” selection knob …
This is not going to be the case for let's just say 99% of the folks on the road so not really a point to be made here but I get it now, yes, all locked means brakes are all tied together. For a car with a typical computer-controlled awd system, open diffs, and ABS this won't be relevant as all wheels will be able to act independently.
And yes...a manual always works great to allow full control of take-off traction as well as downshifting/engine braking but you can replicate it now in many autos now to help slow without using the brakes/breaking traction.
