can't use regenerative braking when it's slippery with the EV/hybrid busses. it's too powerful. Well you can use it, together with regular brakes, but not exclusively.
RWD? FWD? AWD? What's best in snow, by how much?
- Thread starter Ws6
- Start date
can't use regenerative braking when it's slippery with the EV/hybrid busses. it's too powerful. Well you can use it, together with regular brakes, but not exclusively.
I am always amazed of New Englanders in old Corolla or RWD who do slow and steady. If cars are backed up on hill they are simply driving smarter by never stopping driving up break down lane or other side of road to pass stopped traffic.
The tires and driveline are secondary to driving skill by a long shot.
The tires and driveline are secondary to driving skill by a long shot.
I've owned a variety of cars over the years, and I will give you my impressions of each ones snow capabilities.
1981 Pontiac Grand Prix Base V-6 RWD 3 spd auto - Variety of mediocre all season tires, and very early Bridgestone Blizzaks - Lived in NYC where we bought it. Moved to New Brunswick Canada. Driven from NYC to New Brunswick in the winter back in the early to mid 90's several times. Car performed well. Lots of snow storm driving in both NYC and in New Brunswick. Took a bit of finesse to get you were you wanted to go, but it got you there.
1982 Chevy Monte Carlo Base V-6 RWD 3 spd auto - Questionable all season tires on front, brand new snowtires on rear (I was broke, and that was all I could afford at the time) - Just like the Grand Prix, took a bit of finesse to get you were you wanted to go, but it got you there. Lived in Boulder, CO at the time. Driven in HUGE snowstorm in '97. I was taking home a couple of coworkers, and was being tailgated by a white Ford Bronco on the entry to the Boulder Turnpike. As soon as the merge lane met with the highway lanes, Ford Bronco when blasting past us, barely missing my drivers side mirror. Not 1 mile down the road, at the very beginning of the uphill climb, the Bronco lost control, smashed into the center divider, and bounced back to the ditch on the right side of the road, while we just drove on past, right up the hill, no issues. I may have honked a bunch of times at Mr Bronco.
1992 Buick Park Ave Ultra Supercharged 3800 V-6 FWD 4 spd auto - Midgrade all season tires - Owned in NYC in early 2000's, driven to New Brunswick in winter several times. Fantastic car in snow was my impression. It had ABS, but no traction control. Drove like a tank, and just went through anything.
1995 Geo Prism I-4 FWD 4 spd auto - Midgrade Firestone all season tires. This was my sister's car, when I lived with her in NYC. Drove to and from NB several times in late 90's, early 2000's. Car was acceptable in the snow, but if I could have driven the Buick instead, I did. It had ABS, but no traction control. One winter, we were heading back to NYC from NB, on Route 9 Maine, between Calais and Bangor. My sister was driving, and we were driving into the beginnings of a snow storm. Got 2/3rd of the way to Bangor, when my sister suddenly remember that she left her pocket book at the Burger King that we stopped at, but she was too tired to keep driving in the increasingly worse conditions. I took over, spun us around, zipped us back to the BK, turned back around, and drove us back home. Car did its job, but wasn't confidence inspiring.
2007 Nissan Altima I-4 FWD 6 spd manual - Bought brand new in Arvada, CO in Dec 2006. - OEM ContiSport All Seasons, Fuzion HRi All Seasons, original Good Year TripleTread All Seasons. It had ABS, but no traction control. With the first two sets of tires, I thought this was the worst FWD car in the snow I've ever driven. Once I got the GY tires on it, it was fantastic. Tires make a HUGE difference in the snow. Had some long drives home from Boulder to Arvada in a few good sized snowstorms. Very different experiences after the tire change.
1998 Porsche Boxster Flat-6 RWD 5 spd manual - Bought used in 2009. Has ABS and Traction Control. Brand new Falken Ziex all season tires. Same drive from Boulder CO to Arvada CO in a few snow storms. Preferred this car over the Altima before I got the GY tires on it. Had to take Highway 93, which is famous for icing over with the snow blowing over the road surface, which made for a challenging drive at times. Great car in the snow with its mid-rear mounted engine.
2011 Mazda RX-8 2 Cyl Rotary 6 spd Manual - Bought new in 2011 - Hankook i-Cept Evo Winter tires. ABS and limited slip rear axle, no traction control. Traded in the Altima and the Boxster for it. Same commute from Arvada to Boulder, and in same winter driving conditions. Just as much fun in the snow as in the dry summer. Watched a brand new (temp tags) Ford Bronco lose control, smash into the center divider, and guy just threw up his hands as I drove around him in a snowstorm on the Boulder Turnpike on the way to Boulder one morning. Loved driving this car. Did I mention that?
2012 Fiat 500 Sport I-4 FWD 5 spd manual - Bought new by wife in 2011. Yokohama IG-53 snow tires. ABS and Traction Control. Great little car in the snow. Worse in deep sloppy slush conditions. Takes effort to fight ruts because of skinny wheelbase. Can drive through almost any fresh snow conditions, up to about 6 inches without too much thought.
2012 Fiat 500 Abarth Turbo I-4 FWD 5 spd manual - Bought new by wife in 2012. Yokohama IG-53 and Bridgestone Blizzak WS-80 snow tires. Just like above, but with way more SNARL.
2014 Mazda CX-5 2.5 I-4 FWD based AWD 6 spd Auto - Bought new in 2013. Has ABS and Traction Control. Yokohama IG-20 winter tires. Great car in the snow, good control and steering feel. Never have to worry about taking off up a hill ever again. Transmission allows for 2nd gear starts. There was one intersection in the winter I had to avoid being first at the light in the Altima with the first two sets of tires. It was much easier in the Porsche, and a bit easier in the limited slip snow tire equipped RX-8. In the CX-5 with the snows, it was a non-factor. The car just has traction. Lots of traction. You can feel the rear end kick in and provide more thrust under certain conditions.
2015 Porsche Cayman 2.7 Flat-6 RWD 6 spd manual - Bought new in 2015. Never driven in snow. Wife will murder me. Not willing to risk death by wife.
2021 Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0 Turbo I-4 RWD based AWD 8spd auto - Bought new in 2021. Bridgestone Blizzak WS-90. Do you like driving RWD cars in the snow, but you hate climbing steep hills and driveways? Have I got the AWD system for you. Transmission allows for 2nd gear starts. Amazing snow tires. 8+ inch blizzard, no problem. Decided to drive through a closed bank parking lot near my house with drifts of well over 15 inches. No problem, and I swear the car was laughing at me. Car starts off in AWD, and then backs off to RWD when the front tires aren't slipping. Amazing AWD system. Wished the Mazda was this good, honestly.
2022 Alfa Romeo Stelvio 2.0 Turbo I-4 RWD based AWD 8spd auto - Bought new in 2022. Bridgestone Blizzak DV-V2. Same as Giulia, but now with even more ground clearance. Transmission allows for 2nd gear starts. This year we have had lots of snowfall here in in the North of Denver area since Thanksgiving. This car is just as amazing and dynamic as the Giulia, but now, on top of the AWD, the Traction Control, the ABS, and the Stability Control, I have a limited slip rear differential to go with it all. I would put this car and tire combination up against any
other vehicle and tire combo for a snow prowess contest. Unless it was another Stelvio with Nokians, that is.
There are so many different things to take into consideration on if FWD is better than RWD, or if AWD/4WD is better, but, at the end of the day, you can't beat anything if you can't get traction. If you've gotta drive in snowy conditions, no matter what kind of drivetrain your vehicle has, you're better off with good snow tires at all 4 corners.
1981 Pontiac Grand Prix Base V-6 RWD 3 spd auto - Variety of mediocre all season tires, and very early Bridgestone Blizzaks - Lived in NYC where we bought it. Moved to New Brunswick Canada. Driven from NYC to New Brunswick in the winter back in the early to mid 90's several times. Car performed well. Lots of snow storm driving in both NYC and in New Brunswick. Took a bit of finesse to get you were you wanted to go, but it got you there.
1982 Chevy Monte Carlo Base V-6 RWD 3 spd auto - Questionable all season tires on front, brand new snowtires on rear (I was broke, and that was all I could afford at the time) - Just like the Grand Prix, took a bit of finesse to get you were you wanted to go, but it got you there. Lived in Boulder, CO at the time. Driven in HUGE snowstorm in '97. I was taking home a couple of coworkers, and was being tailgated by a white Ford Bronco on the entry to the Boulder Turnpike. As soon as the merge lane met with the highway lanes, Ford Bronco when blasting past us, barely missing my drivers side mirror. Not 1 mile down the road, at the very beginning of the uphill climb, the Bronco lost control, smashed into the center divider, and bounced back to the ditch on the right side of the road, while we just drove on past, right up the hill, no issues. I may have honked a bunch of times at Mr Bronco.
1992 Buick Park Ave Ultra Supercharged 3800 V-6 FWD 4 spd auto - Midgrade all season tires - Owned in NYC in early 2000's, driven to New Brunswick in winter several times. Fantastic car in snow was my impression. It had ABS, but no traction control. Drove like a tank, and just went through anything.
1995 Geo Prism I-4 FWD 4 spd auto - Midgrade Firestone all season tires. This was my sister's car, when I lived with her in NYC. Drove to and from NB several times in late 90's, early 2000's. Car was acceptable in the snow, but if I could have driven the Buick instead, I did. It had ABS, but no traction control. One winter, we were heading back to NYC from NB, on Route 9 Maine, between Calais and Bangor. My sister was driving, and we were driving into the beginnings of a snow storm. Got 2/3rd of the way to Bangor, when my sister suddenly remember that she left her pocket book at the Burger King that we stopped at, but she was too tired to keep driving in the increasingly worse conditions. I took over, spun us around, zipped us back to the BK, turned back around, and drove us back home. Car did its job, but wasn't confidence inspiring.
2007 Nissan Altima I-4 FWD 6 spd manual - Bought brand new in Arvada, CO in Dec 2006. - OEM ContiSport All Seasons, Fuzion HRi All Seasons, original Good Year TripleTread All Seasons. It had ABS, but no traction control. With the first two sets of tires, I thought this was the worst FWD car in the snow I've ever driven. Once I got the GY tires on it, it was fantastic. Tires make a HUGE difference in the snow. Had some long drives home from Boulder to Arvada in a few good sized snowstorms. Very different experiences after the tire change.
1998 Porsche Boxster Flat-6 RWD 5 spd manual - Bought used in 2009. Has ABS and Traction Control. Brand new Falken Ziex all season tires. Same drive from Boulder CO to Arvada CO in a few snow storms. Preferred this car over the Altima before I got the GY tires on it. Had to take Highway 93, which is famous for icing over with the snow blowing over the road surface, which made for a challenging drive at times. Great car in the snow with its mid-rear mounted engine.
2011 Mazda RX-8 2 Cyl Rotary 6 spd Manual - Bought new in 2011 - Hankook i-Cept Evo Winter tires. ABS and limited slip rear axle, no traction control. Traded in the Altima and the Boxster for it. Same commute from Arvada to Boulder, and in same winter driving conditions. Just as much fun in the snow as in the dry summer. Watched a brand new (temp tags) Ford Bronco lose control, smash into the center divider, and guy just threw up his hands as I drove around him in a snowstorm on the Boulder Turnpike on the way to Boulder one morning. Loved driving this car. Did I mention that?
2012 Fiat 500 Sport I-4 FWD 5 spd manual - Bought new by wife in 2011. Yokohama IG-53 snow tires. ABS and Traction Control. Great little car in the snow. Worse in deep sloppy slush conditions. Takes effort to fight ruts because of skinny wheelbase. Can drive through almost any fresh snow conditions, up to about 6 inches without too much thought.
2012 Fiat 500 Abarth Turbo I-4 FWD 5 spd manual - Bought new by wife in 2012. Yokohama IG-53 and Bridgestone Blizzak WS-80 snow tires. Just like above, but with way more SNARL.
2014 Mazda CX-5 2.5 I-4 FWD based AWD 6 spd Auto - Bought new in 2013. Has ABS and Traction Control. Yokohama IG-20 winter tires. Great car in the snow, good control and steering feel. Never have to worry about taking off up a hill ever again. Transmission allows for 2nd gear starts. There was one intersection in the winter I had to avoid being first at the light in the Altima with the first two sets of tires. It was much easier in the Porsche, and a bit easier in the limited slip snow tire equipped RX-8. In the CX-5 with the snows, it was a non-factor. The car just has traction. Lots of traction. You can feel the rear end kick in and provide more thrust under certain conditions.
2015 Porsche Cayman 2.7 Flat-6 RWD 6 spd manual - Bought new in 2015. Never driven in snow. Wife will murder me. Not willing to risk death by wife.
2021 Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0 Turbo I-4 RWD based AWD 8spd auto - Bought new in 2021. Bridgestone Blizzak WS-90. Do you like driving RWD cars in the snow, but you hate climbing steep hills and driveways? Have I got the AWD system for you. Transmission allows for 2nd gear starts. Amazing snow tires. 8+ inch blizzard, no problem. Decided to drive through a closed bank parking lot near my house with drifts of well over 15 inches. No problem, and I swear the car was laughing at me. Car starts off in AWD, and then backs off to RWD when the front tires aren't slipping. Amazing AWD system. Wished the Mazda was this good, honestly.
2022 Alfa Romeo Stelvio 2.0 Turbo I-4 RWD based AWD 8spd auto - Bought new in 2022. Bridgestone Blizzak DV-V2. Same as Giulia, but now with even more ground clearance. Transmission allows for 2nd gear starts. This year we have had lots of snowfall here in in the North of Denver area since Thanksgiving. This car is just as amazing and dynamic as the Giulia, but now, on top of the AWD, the Traction Control, the ABS, and the Stability Control, I have a limited slip rear differential to go with it all. I would put this car and tire combination up against any
other vehicle and tire combo for a snow prowess contest. Unless it was another Stelvio with Nokians, that is.
There are so many different things to take into consideration on if FWD is better than RWD, or if AWD/4WD is better, but, at the end of the day, you can't beat anything if you can't get traction. If you've gotta drive in snowy conditions, no matter what kind of drivetrain your vehicle has, you're better off with good snow tires at all 4 corners.
I'm in south jersey that looks awfully familiar LOL.
Actually that was after I moved back to VA...Annandale/No. VA area
Argument how one can stay home in case of snow etc. is most ridiculous thing and insult to intelligence.
In 2019 when Bombgenesis hit us, I picked up some 30+ people who got stuck in snow. That night neighbors who could drive, picked up upward of 150 people bcs. rain turned into ice, than snow, which made anyone on AS tires sliding all over the road and those with AWD and AS turning into ballistic missiles going downhill.
All of them had excuse: “but I thought it won’t be this bad.” “It caught me by surprise (for 2 days they were saying it will be really bad storm).” Etc.
Life doesn’t work that way.
In 2019 when Bombgenesis hit us, I picked up some 30+ people who got stuck in snow. That night neighbors who could drive, picked up upward of 150 people bcs. rain turned into ice, than snow, which made anyone on AS tires sliding all over the road and those with AWD and AS turning into ballistic missiles going downhill.
All of them had excuse: “but I thought it won’t be this bad.” “It caught me by surprise (for 2 days they were saying it will be really bad storm).” Etc.
Life doesn’t work that way.
I had a 1990 - they called it the “loyale.” They dropped 4-lo by then but it still had honest 4x4 when engaged. Mine was spfi for a whopping 80 hp or so. Carburetor models made 69 if I recall. And yes, it was unstoppable in snow, and quite adept and skills and thrills becuause it weighed nothing and had surprisingly good weight balance. It also didn’t have the problem of being overpowered. It was also effective, even for its small size, of helping pull folks out of ditches.This was by far my favorite vehicle for snow. 1989 Subaru GL 4x4 wagon, touring edition (had a roof "bubble"), 5 speed. 4x4...not awd. Transfer case and hi/lo range...a manual lever to engage like a truck, not the push-button single-range 4x4 on some of these. Absolute beast. Most underpowered car I've owned however. Pic from Snowshoe, WV circa mid-'90s I believe. I remember it was a slow snow covered road climb to the lodge. BF Goodrich Radial T/As, white letters out of course!This car was nearly unstopppable....basically the Outback before the Outback. I used to four-wheel this on the soft/deep sand in the Outerbanks of NC to go surfing back then, lower tire pressure to 15 psi and send it on those BFGs. Every Jeep/truck on the beach just staring in disbelief. Driver mod.
View attachment 137244
I never cared for the spare tire storage.
I had someone STOP at a green light today, after 2 other people went through, then had the audacity to give me the finger when I honked at them. They also had a felony forest of disposable masks hanging from their rear view mirror.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
The opportunities seem endless to produce a very good outcome in an AWD EV system … Time & money …
But when something is big, long, heavy - and RWD … Might run out of time & money there …
Summer tires? That would be more important than which wheels are spinning with no traction.
Krzyś
Certainly doesn't help.
Looks like it, winter tires would be moving the car and roosting pretty good with a modern Camaro's weight distribution.
Four wheels sliding around on ice are the same as two wheels. At a certain point it doesn’t really matter anymore. Conditions > tires > driver’s ability > drivetrain configuration. The less you have of one the more you need of the others.
The guy in the Camaro is making better progress than my neighbor was with his FWD Honda Civic earlier today.
I was in the middle of a zoom work meeting, when I started hearing an odd sound, so popped my head out the front door, only to see my neighbor 3 houses down on the opposite side of the street bouncing the Civic off the rev limiter out of what I'm guessing was a 50/50 mix of raw frustration and stupidity.
He's stuck on a slab of ice directly in front of his house.
He was street parked before the snow came several days back, and this is his first time trying to get it to move.
I go back inside, finish my meeting, and 15 minutes later, the revving sound changes.
Pop back outside, and he has his car stuck, rear end in the driveway, front wheels stuck in the bump between the curb and the street where its a lake of ice, still going full send on the throttle, and rocking the steering wheel left and right, hoping to get traction out of his now even more trashed tires.
I don't really understand why if he got his car to move, why he then decided to try to back into his driveway.
He should have just driven up the street, and kept going. Once he gets to the main street, its dry pavement.
I go back inside.
10 minutes later, I hop in my car, and head out to lunch, just as he finally gets out of his driveway, and parks the car across the street, still on a slab of ice. Car is still in the same spot right now, 10 hours later.
I was in the middle of a zoom work meeting, when I started hearing an odd sound, so popped my head out the front door, only to see my neighbor 3 houses down on the opposite side of the street bouncing the Civic off the rev limiter out of what I'm guessing was a 50/50 mix of raw frustration and stupidity.
He's stuck on a slab of ice directly in front of his house.
He was street parked before the snow came several days back, and this is his first time trying to get it to move.
I go back inside, finish my meeting, and 15 minutes later, the revving sound changes.
Pop back outside, and he has his car stuck, rear end in the driveway, front wheels stuck in the bump between the curb and the street where its a lake of ice, still going full send on the throttle, and rocking the steering wheel left and right, hoping to get traction out of his now even more trashed tires.
I don't really understand why if he got his car to move, why he then decided to try to back into his driveway.
He should have just driven up the street, and kept going. Once he gets to the main street, its dry pavement.
I go back inside.
10 minutes later, I hop in my car, and head out to lunch, just as he finally gets out of his driveway, and parks the car across the street, still on a slab of ice. Car is still in the same spot right now, 10 hours later.
I quite enjoyed watching similar situations unfold today as well. While working from home periodically I would pop my head out when I heard a ruckus. I got to watch the absolute wonder that is the suburban Texan in a 4WD truck with highway tires sliding around on a sheet of ice while spinning all four wheels. I could just hear the conversations leading up to this in my head…
Wife - Oh no! I think we are out of [insert random item.]
Husband - That’s ok. I’ll go get some from the store.
Wife - It’s pretty bad out there, are you sure?
Husband - Yeah, it will be fine babe. I have - he smiles proudly because he knows this is his truck’s big moment to shine - 4WD.
The subsequent buffoonery was a real treat to behold.
Really depends on the car. I’d take a BMW M car with high quality limited slip differential and decent weight balance vs a FWD open differential Corolla or something. A Porsche 911 C2S is going to destroy almost all FWD cars in snow traction.
Doesn’t help? It is key to performance!
And it is TX. 9 out of 10 vehicles doesn’t have tires appropriate for dry conditions.
