Russian military trucks - from Soviet Union

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Russian military trucks Not sure if this is the correct section... Myself and a group of others run Russian military vehicles, Zil’s, URAL, GAZ etc which were designed in the Soviet Union in the ‘60’s and ‘70’s (see Zil131.com). My interest is in the Zil 131, a 7.5 tonne 6x6 with a 6 litre push rod, low speed, low compression 150 Kw petrol engine and which uses a centrifugal filter (which spins on long after the engine stops!). These robust trucks were designed for extreme climatic conditions from -55 Celsius to +55 Celsius using the prevalent Russian oils and greases but the question often arises, what are the modern western equivalents or alternatives available today. For example, anecdotally it is said that the Zil 131 engine has wider tolerances than modern (Western) engines and therefore higher viscosity engine oil should be used. One user has also observed low oil pressure when using low viscosity oil whereas I would suggest that the very best oil would be 0W50 which would be happy in the Libyan Sahara in summer and Chucotka in winter! I wonder if you guys might have some definitive advice for us. Any help would be very much appreciated. These are the oils and greases the Russian manuals specify using the Soviet Union standards:- AC-8 Oil - Used in crankcase, engine air cleaner and crankcase air cleaner T146 Automotive Transmission Fluid - Used in Gear box, transfer case, difs, axle drive prop, walking Beam Suspension hubs, steering column prop YC1 Grease or Press Solid C - Used in clutch release fork, clutch pedal shaft, splines of axle prop or Grade C Steering rod hinged joints, spring bolts, worm gear wheel brake adjuster lever, expansion cam shafts of wheel brakes, pintle hook stem 58 R-H32 Grease or GOST 9432-60 - Bearings on water pump, bearings on fan, distributor drive or GOST 1-13C shaft, splines of steering column, bearings of wheel hub Oil Grad P or Turbine oil22 - Hydraulic booster or GOST 32-55 Spindle Oil or GOST 1642-50 - telescopic shock absorber One other matter, these trucks are acquired mostly from ex. Warsaw pact army conservation centres and although have very low Km’s (some as low as 500 Km’s) they will have been stored for up to 30 years and experienced 30 hot summers and 30 cold winters with only the occasional run around the depot and only if they are lucky will they have had an oil change during that time. What advice can you give in regard of remedial treatments under such circumstances? Cheers.
 

Fastship

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My truck will be a RTW (round the world) expedition truck. It will be used in the Sahara in summer and Chokotka in winter as well high altitudes. Most trucks though, are used sporadically for off road fun.
 
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I was going to refer you to Jacques Littlefield, a world class military vehicle restorer, but he has passed away http://www.mishalov.net/military-vehicles/military-vehicles.html Have you tried contacting some of the major restorers that actually operate their vehicles? How about the people at Bovington over on your side of the creek? I believe they also restore and operate military vehicles. It's been 15 years since I was there through.
 

Fastship

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I'm sure some of the guys know of Bovington but please understand, these are not just working vehicles but they are also current inventory in Russian, Ukraine and many former Warsaw Pact armies. They are therefore, due the same condideration due for any any former Soviet truck (none!) and they are famously able to run on and on with little or no maintenance and on anything resembling fuel of any description. We use common sense when it comes to oils and grease etc but I thought I would canvas expert opinion.
 
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I have forwarded the information you provided to some technical folks I know that work on the commercial/industrial side of the business at Shell Oil here in the USA. It will be after the Easter holiday before I get any response, but I will post as soon as I find out something. to BITOG
 
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 Originally Posted By: Fastship
Russian military trucks Not sure if this is the correct section... These are the oils and greases the Russian manuals specify using the Soviet Union standards:- AC-8 Oil - Used in crankcase, engine air cleaner and crankcase air cleaner T146 Automotive Transmission Fluid - Used in Gear box, transfer case, difs, axle drive prop, walking Beam Suspension hubs, steering column prop YC1 Grease or Press Solid C - Used in clutch release fork, clutch pedal shaft, splines of axle prop or Grade C Steering rod hinged joints, spring bolts, worm gear wheel brake adjuster lever, expansion cam shafts of wheel brakes, pintle hook stem 58 R-H32 Grease or GOST 9432-60 - Bearings on water pump, bearings on fan, distributor drive or GOST 1-13C shaft, splines of steering column, bearings of wheel hub Oil Grad P or Turbine oil22 - Hydraulic booster or GOST 32-55 Spindle Oil or GOST 1642-50 - telescopic shock absorber
Did you transliterate part numbers? Is it AC-8, or AS-8 (Russian C is pronounced as English S) Is GOST 9432-60 the same as 58 Р-Х32, ГОСТ 9432-60? I wish you asked that question a month ago, I was in Russia 3 weeks ago.
 
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Fastship

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 Originally Posted By: Ursae_Majoris
OK, after some digging around, here is what I found, AC-8 was replaced by newer M-8B (English pronunciation m-8V). Believe it or not, it is SAE 20: http://nikosauto.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=43 third one down on this page.
Yes - you see the issue now! When these trucks were designed in the USSR in the 1960's/70's oil technology was not what it is today and SAE 20 equivalent was specified. Given the climatic conditions in which these trucks operate (the engine has a tap on the bottom of the block to drain the cooling water away over night and a heater on the top to warm snow for the next day's work)there must surely be a better alternatives today.
 

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Just so you can see what we are discussing: Zil 131 URAL 375D
 
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 Originally Posted By: Fastship
.......... whereas I would suggest that the very best oil would be 0W50 which would be happy in the Libyan Sahara in summer and Chucotka in winter!..........
Has anyone in your group tried Mobil 1 0W-40?
 

Fastship

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I think I will when I blue print my engine or something similar at least. Mostly a simple & cheap 20W50 is used which I think is too thick given the designers specified a SAE20. The climate in the UK is not severe and these trucks are cheap enough to be disposable anyway. These trucks also have three diffs, five prop shafts, three gear boxes, and are festooned with grease points so those ares are equally in need of modern treatment.
 
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I received a reply today from one of the engineers at Shell in Houston, so here it is. AC-8 Oil - Used in crankcase, engine air cleaner and crankcase air cleaner > ROTELLA 15W40 if 4 cycle, SAE 40 if 2 cycle. T146 Automotive Transmission Fluid - Used in Gear box, transfer case, difs, axle drive prop, walking Beam Suspension hubs, steering column prop >Need more information, potentially Donax TD for all, or split up into SAE 50 for gearbox (manual trans); Spirax HD 80W-90 and others. YC1 Grease or Press Solid C - Used in clutch release fork, clutch pedal shaft, splines of axle prop or Grade C Steering rod hinged joints, spring bolts, worm gear wheel brake adjuster lever, expansion cam shafts of wheel brakes, pintle hook stem >Retinax CMX 1 or 2 (moly grease) 58 R-H32 Grease or GOST 9432-60 - Bearings on water pump, bearings on fan, distributor drive or GOST 1-13C shaft, splines of steering column (could use the moly grease for splines), bearings of wheel hub Retinax LX 2 (multipurpose chasis grease, high temperature.) Oil Grad P or Turbine oil22 - Hydraulic booster or GOST 32-55 >Tellus T 22 or Morlina HS 22 (was Spindle Oil 22) Tellus is anti-wear hydraulic higher VI in Tellus T than spindle oil, better for low temperatures. Spindle Oil or GOST 1642-50 - telescopic shock absorber >Tellus T 22 or Morlina HS 22 (found in AeroShell book.)
 

Fastship

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Thanks for your kind assistance. The AC-8 oil Zil originally specified was indeed a SAE20 and we are at a loss to explain why! I have established that AC-8 is no longer made and the GOST of those days have been superceded. I don't think that Shell brand or formulation is available here but 15W40 is what most guys use. I think when I blueprint and rebuild my engine I'll try a 0W20 and if that doesn't work out try a 0W40.
 
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Swedish army used 0w-20 in everything when i went into service.(1985), the main reason was good cold weather starts. The oil selection wasent based on longlivety at all, remember that "true" service life for this eguipment is maybe a week then its either blown away or the driver is dead! Definately think any modern HDEO will superseede the recomendations.
 

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That's interesting ac_td. Anyone from the Canadian or Alskan military have a view as well? These days a 15W40 is commonly used but I wonder what the consequences are in using a 0W20 and not a 0W40? The Shell Rotella is a 15W40 but in the spec it state: "Off-highway applications where an all-season, universal engine oil is desired, such as construction, mining, logging and agriculturual service for manufacturers" and I was wondering also, how might this oil have been modified compared to a general purpose 15W40 oil?
 
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 Quote:
remember that "true" service life for this eguipment is maybe a week then its either blown away or the driver is dead!
Sobering thought... \:\(
 
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Just going from what I've read here, HDEO like shell rotella T has more antiwear additives than regular "car" motor oil as in most HDEO applications there aren't catalytic converters to worry about if the engine is burning some oil. I run 0W40 Rotella T in my ATV as it needs to start in -20C often and then worked quite hard for plowing my driveway. I'm curious why you are taking such a big vehicle for a round the world tour? Wouldn't something smaller and lighter be easier to drive off road with, use less fuel, less tires, easier to get unstuck, etc? I guess you can take alot of spares in a big truck, as you probably won't find any in most places... Here's a couple guys that ran the length of the american continents on a couple 100cc honda scooters, which I thought was insane at first but when I think about it there are worse vehicles to choose for that trip. http://www.honda50.cc/ Anyways going around the world in anything sounds like an adventure of a lifetime. Good luck with the trip. Ian
 

Fastship

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Hmm - heavy duty oil is different to "car" oil? I still can't understand the consequences of using a "40" weight when a "20" weight was specified. That's a good question about the choice of vehicle and being a bike guy that's what I'd use too. Plenty of people do RTW on all sorts of vehicles from mopeds to Harley's. I'm waiting for the first person to do it on a Segway though... My journey has a different theme in that I want to do almost the entire journey "off road" visiting as many as the planets sand deserts (my interest) as possible and also touching the extremes i.e. hottest place (Libyan Sand Sea - 66c) the coldest (Chokotka -89c) highest pass (Khardung La, India 5300m). This excludes the use of a bike for some of the sections due to cold, the requirement to carry sufficient water and the restricted range of a bike. I will however, be carrying two bikes with me so large parts (India, Indo China, Australia, South America, the USA) will be done on the bike using the truck as a base. The Chukotka/Pevek/180 east/Uelen part of the journey is important to me and that requires a particular vehicle but two years later I will be at the opposite end of the world in Ushaia on a bike! I will also be traversing the length of the Himalya which requires deep fording and plenty of winching! Russian trucks have engine driven winches as standard but will also climb 100% gradiants. Also, they have Central Tyre Inflation and engagable six wheel drive. Russian military trucks are ideal for this as they are cheap ($1500 with 2,500 km!)designed as off road vehicles and extreme climates are virtually indestructable, will run on anything that burns and are easy to repair. I can also live in the back with my bikes and a tonne of water so save on costs. Tyres are about $300 each but there's 9 of them and they are hard to get outside Russia \:\( These trucks do about 6 mpg so I'm designing a new cam, will fit an eddelbrock carb to improve that and extend the range to 1,600km. Outside of Europe fuel is cheap enough not to be a issue though (9 cents/gal in Libya!). My route (at the mo) takes me down through Spain into Morocco as far south as Mali then up through Mauritania into Algeria, Libya, Egypt crossing the entire Sahara, Jordan, Syria, Turkey Iran, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan into Russia around Baikal. Follow the Lena to Yakutsk then across the Russian Far East to the Kolyma River then head north to Pevek and the East Siberian Sea. After 180 east and Uelen (100km’s from the USA – I’ll wave!) down via the Chara Sands Baikal and from there to Mongolia and the Gobi, into China and the Taklamakan, Tibet then cross the Himalaya into Nepal. After Bhutan, traverse the Himalaya east to west then into India and the Thar. Have a mooch around India then ship to Singapore from where I can strike north into Thailand, Laos, Cambodia & Vietnam. Malaysia and Indonesia too but after that ship to Australia from East Timor and cross the red heart west to east up to the tip of Cape York then down the east coast. Ship to Valparaiso then down to Ushuaia up into Argentina back across the Andes and up the spine of Chile into Bolivia and the Atacama then into Peru. From there across the Amazon to Manaus and up to Venezuela and Angel Falls. Head west to Colombia then up through Panama and C/A to Mexico. Drive the Baja route (maybe enter my Zil in the race!) and then into the USA and check out a few deserts there before heading into Canada then back into the USA and Montana then across to the East coast via the TAT and New England then ship to Liverpool. End. That’s a gross oversimplification but in general it is my route. Any oil company want to sponsor me?
 
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