Running your gas to near empty each time = bad?
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Originally Posted By: dblshock
the statement should hold up regardless.
It's true but it doesn't matter.. How is 70lbs (100lbs or more in some) going to make a difference in a heavy car? Again, yeah, some say it runs better with less gas, but.. HOW much better?
the statement should hold up regardless.
It's true but it doesn't matter.. How is 70lbs (100lbs or more in some) going to make a difference in a heavy car? Again, yeah, some say it runs better with less gas, but.. HOW much better?
Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
Now, that gasoline that is cooling the pump. Sure, it gets through there.. But, how HOT is the gasoline itself. And then, some comes through the return line.. I have begun keeping the tank refueled at 1/2 to 1/3 of empty. Today it took 11.something gallons, the video tells the tale. I try to never let that vapor get to a point where it could heat up a lot.
Also make sure you never park in the sun.
But if you do overheat your fuel pump, get a new one from Arizona. It's hotter there, the manufacturers use pumps that can withstand the heat better on cars in desert states.
Now, that gasoline that is cooling the pump. Sure, it gets through there.. But, how HOT is the gasoline itself. And then, some comes through the return line.. I have begun keeping the tank refueled at 1/2 to 1/3 of empty. Today it took 11.something gallons, the video tells the tale. I try to never let that vapor get to a point where it could heat up a lot.
Also make sure you never park in the sun.
But if you do overheat your fuel pump, get a new one from Arizona. It's hotter there, the manufacturers use pumps that can withstand the heat better on cars in desert states.
Originally Posted By: jdeare
Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
Now, that gasoline that is cooling the pump. Sure, it gets through there.. But, how HOT is the gasoline itself. And then, some comes through the return line.. I have begun keeping the tank refueled at 1/2 to 1/3 of empty. Today it took 11.something gallons, the video tells the tale. I try to never let that vapor get to a point where it could heat up a lot.
Also make sure you never park in the sun.
But if you do overheat your fuel pump, get a new one from Arizona. It's hotter there, the manufacturers use pumps that can withstand the heat better on cars in desert states.
Still, the volume of liquid is significant. "Running on fumes.." Those fumes help kill the pump? Maybe, just maybe?
Wouldn't a FULL tank (of liquid gasoline) help handle that heat more than FUMES?
Just like a cooling system. When AIR gets in the cooling system, and it isn't ALL liquid.. Car starts to overheat! Now, fuel is not coolant.. but the circulation cools the engine. Low on coolant = Engine too hot.
Also, can't a gas line "vapor lock?" ???
Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
Now, that gasoline that is cooling the pump. Sure, it gets through there.. But, how HOT is the gasoline itself. And then, some comes through the return line.. I have begun keeping the tank refueled at 1/2 to 1/3 of empty. Today it took 11.something gallons, the video tells the tale. I try to never let that vapor get to a point where it could heat up a lot.
Also make sure you never park in the sun.
But if you do overheat your fuel pump, get a new one from Arizona. It's hotter there, the manufacturers use pumps that can withstand the heat better on cars in desert states.
Still, the volume of liquid is significant. "Running on fumes.." Those fumes help kill the pump? Maybe, just maybe?
Wouldn't a FULL tank (of liquid gasoline) help handle that heat more than FUMES?
Just like a cooling system. When AIR gets in the cooling system, and it isn't ALL liquid.. Car starts to overheat! Now, fuel is not coolant.. but the circulation cools the engine. Low on coolant = Engine too hot.
Also, can't a gas line "vapor lock?" ???
I tend to think it's going to take a lot more heat than what you're describing to kill a fuel pump. In my experience it's running the tank completely dry and sucking up whatever might be in the bottom of your tank or running it dry that damages a fuel pump.
Also, an engine generates a lot more heat than a fuel pump, so it takes more cooling.
Also, an engine generates a lot more heat than a fuel pump, so it takes more cooling.
It also depends on the system used - some are returnless, and some circuit the fuel back.
TOO low can hurt a pump. Way low when cornering can starve it.
Normally, it is not a big factor.
I run mine low, then fill it up.
TOO low can hurt a pump. Way low when cornering can starve it.
Normally, it is not a big factor.
I run mine low, then fill it up.
I run all my cars till the low fuel light comes on (and then some depending on how lucky I feel).
Never replaced a fuel pump and all cars lasted till well over 100k. The wife does it too and hers is at 125k and the pump is quiet as can be.
IMHO it's a myth as most pumps sit in a "sump" of gas at the low point in a tank.
Never replaced a fuel pump and all cars lasted till well over 100k. The wife does it too and hers is at 125k and the pump is quiet as can be.
IMHO it's a myth as most pumps sit in a "sump" of gas at the low point in a tank.
Is there any non-anecdotal evidence that running a car "until the light comes on" is bad, like TSBs, warnings from manufacturers, or actual research?
With all of the warnings on cars about topping of the gas tank, past the first click of the pump, why aren't manufacturers warning against running tanks too low?
With all of the warnings on cars about topping of the gas tank, past the first click of the pump, why aren't manufacturers warning against running tanks too low?
Originally Posted By: itguy08
IMHO it's a myth as most pumps sit in a "sump" of gas at the low point in a tank.
It absolutely is a myth. Doesn't anyone imagine that the mfgr's know we run the tanks dry?
IMHO it's a myth as most pumps sit in a "sump" of gas at the low point in a tank.
It absolutely is a myth. Doesn't anyone imagine that the mfgr's know we run the tanks dry?
Both the pump bearings and brushes are lubricated hydrodynamically by the pump being internally full of fuel. Although the pump should always remain full of fuel, I would expect the proportion of bubbles would be higher when the tank is very low and that might possibly contribute to slightly increased wear. It's not much different than the engine sump level and how many of you let that go low?
That said, personally I don't really think I should have to care unless the owner's manual says I should.
That said, personally I don't really think I should have to care unless the owner's manual says I should.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: itguy08
IMHO it's a myth as most pumps sit in a "sump" of gas at the low point in a tank.
It absolutely is a myth. Doesn't anyone imagine that the mfgr's know we run the tanks dry?
I don't see why ANY manufacturer would assume an owner would let a tank get that low, no. (Meaning.. I do not think they plan for leaving it on "E" all the time.. no." Is why they make a WARNING light for that..)
Originally Posted By: itguy08
IMHO it's a myth as most pumps sit in a "sump" of gas at the low point in a tank.
It absolutely is a myth. Doesn't anyone imagine that the mfgr's know we run the tanks dry?
I don't see why ANY manufacturer would assume an owner would let a tank get that low, no. (Meaning.. I do not think they plan for leaving it on "E" all the time.. no." Is why they make a WARNING light for that..)
A few years back, I noticed my Fuel Pump got a lot louder fairly quickly. Not knowing how much time was left on it, I kept the tank above half which seemed to quiet it somewhat, but when it failed, I had about 22 gallons in the tank, and had the joy of dropping the tank on the side of the road, in Baja, with the help of a local rancher.
I think it is obvious from this thread, some brands do not care if they sit submerged in fuel or not, and some do, to some degree or another. But you all can just keep restating your hardened opinions in the belief you might actually change somebody else's mind. That is always amusing, until it is sad.
I think it is obvious from this thread, some brands do not care if they sit submerged in fuel or not, and some do, to some degree or another. But you all can just keep restating your hardened opinions in the belief you might actually change somebody else's mind. That is always amusing, until it is sad.
Originally Posted By: badtlc
I have seen nothing indicating there is any issue.
But, for the record my manual for my 2012 Mazda3 recommends filling up when the gas is down to 1/4 of a tank or before.
Probably because Mazda wants more fuel cooling the pump, much like the full gallon vs 10%.
I have seen nothing indicating there is any issue.
But, for the record my manual for my 2012 Mazda3 recommends filling up when the gas is down to 1/4 of a tank or before.
Probably because Mazda wants more fuel cooling the pump, much like the full gallon vs 10%.
I make it a practice to refill before 1/4 tank. I don't know if it's been a good practice or not but in my cars, I've never had a fuel pump fail on me my cars.
It would be more of an issue in a diesel with tank based lift pump as I assume the diesel also lubricates the pump.
If you run my Volvo out of fuel you will definately not damage the tank pump.
How do I know this?
Simple, it doesn't have any form of pump in the tank, mucho fun to bleed through!
In general terms I think you could damage the pump but only after many many years of running a tank dry.
If you run my Volvo out of fuel you will definately not damage the tank pump.
How do I know this?
Simple, it doesn't have any form of pump in the tank, mucho fun to bleed through!
In general terms I think you could damage the pump but only after many many years of running a tank dry.
I run all my cars to near empty with good results. And very long automotive life.
One reason is less trips to the gas station.
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