Royal Purple ATF Not for HONDA DW-1 Replacment

[David1]

Please Note: Max ATF is not recommended for the following applications: Allison TES-389, DEXRON VI, Ford Type F and MERCON SP & LV,
Honda DW-1, Hyundai SP-IV and NWS-9638, Kia SP-IV, JWS 3324, MAN 339 Z3, Mercedes Benz 236.8, 236.12, 236.14 & 236.15, Mitsubishi SP-
IV and ATF J2, Nissan Matic-S, Saab 93-165-147, Shell M-1375.4 (ZF 6-Speed AT), Toyota WS (JWS 3324) and ZF TE-ML 14C. Max ATF is not
recommended for use in any CVT or DCT applications.
Dexron
®
is a registered trademark of General Motors Corporation. Mercon
®
is a registered trademark of Ford Motor Company.

Strange... Its reccomended for HONDA ATF-Z1 but NOT recommended for Honda ATF DW-1

 

[fdcg27]

It's even stranger that Vavoline's much less expensive Maxlife fully synthetic ATF is recommended for many of the applications that the RP fluid misses, including Honda DW-1.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: David1
Strange... Its reccomended for HONDA ATF-Z1 but NOT recommended for Honda ATF DW-1

ATF-Z1 is off the market, having been replaced by DW-1 long ago.

I wonder about your assertion that Max ATF is "recommended" as a replacement for Z1; your document certainly does not say that. Are you inferring that it's "recommended" simply because the document does not specifically say otherwise?

 

[ddtmoto]

But it is Purple, it must be better than...? The Maxlife atf is sure liked in my household's HM vehicles, except the Ram of course.

 

[Mr Nice]

I would only use Honda ATF !!!!!

 

[David1]

Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: David1
Strange... Its reccomended for HONDA ATF-Z1 but NOT recommended for Honda ATF DW-1

ATF-Z1 is off the market, having been replaced by DW-1 long ago.

I wonder about your assertion that Max ATF is "recommended" as a replacement for Z1; your document certainly does not say that. Are you inferring that it's "recommended" simply because the document does not specifically say otherwise?


Im just showing what it says on RP site. and asking the question and just making people aware.

ATF Z1 and DW1 are suppose to be different, DW1 is better for cold weather start up and yes I know Honda only replaced to DW-1

However with a fine and expensive ATF as Royal Purple why would they post its not reccomended to use in place of DW-1 Honda ATF ???

Strange.

Also I have seen other ATF Fluids say recommended replacement for ATF DW-1 Castrol Multi Vehicle and Redline D4 and D6 matter of fact say Honda DW-1 Approved.

The Redline D4 is for AT 4Speed and Redline D6 is for AT 5 Speed

or it seems so as I have read at Honda Accord and Honda Odyssey forums

However this was brought up at a ACCORD Forum.... NOT to use Royal Purple ATF in Honda Trans.

Perhaps they mean Honda 2003 and up.. b/c you could use ATF Z1 in 2002 Hondas but NOT in 2003 Hondas.

So perhaps that's why on the Royal Purple ATF is says ATF Z1 recommended... for instance that's if you have a 2002 or lower Honda or Acura.

that's the best I can think of

what you think?


This could be why Mobil 1 removed HONDA ATF Z1 recommendation from the Mobile 1 ATF SYN bottle.

perhaps they didnt want people to use it 2003 Hondas... b.c as I said above 2002 Honda moved to DW-1

so what you think?

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
However with a fine and expensive ATF as Royal Purple why would they post its not reccomended to use in place of DW-1 Honda ATF ???


Because the PI package they use is not qualified for the above applications.

 

[David1]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
However with a fine and expensive ATF as Royal Purple why would they post its not reccomended to use in place of DW-1 Honda ATF ???


Because the PI package they use is not qualified for the above applications.


So your saying not to use in place of Honda DW-1 or Honda Cars 2003 and above?

as a replacement for ATF Z1 would be fine?

is this what you mean?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Because the PI package they use is not qualified for the above applications.

If it claims every specification under the sun, it's a problem. If it misses some specifications, that's a problem, too.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
So your saying not to use in place of Honda DW-1 or Honda Cars 2003 and above?

as a replacement for ATF Z1 would be fine?

is this what you mean?



OK TO USE (as a replacement FOR) THESE ATF FLUIDS:

Allison C-4, TES-295, Mazda ATF-M III, ATF-MV, Audi G-052-162, G-052-990, G-055-025, Mercedes Benz 236.1, 236.2, 236.3, 236.5,
236.6, 236.7, 236.9, 236.10, 236.11
BMW 7045E, LA2634, LT71141
Chrysler ATF+, ATF+2, ATF+3, ATF+4
Mitsubishi SP-II, SP-III
Chrysler Mopar AS68RC
Nissan 402, Matic-D, Matic-J, Matic-K
Ford FNR5, MERCON®, MERCON® V Shell 3403, LA2634
GM DEXRON®, DEXRON® II, DEXRON® IID,
DEXRON® IIE, DEXRON®-IIIF, DEXRON® IIIG, DEXRON®-IIIH
Subaru ATF, ATF-HP
Suzuki 3314, 3317
Texaco ETL-7045E, ETL-8072B, N402
Esso LT 71141 Toyota T-III, T-IV
Honda ATF-Z1 (except in CVT’s) Voith 55.6335.XX (G607)
Hyundai SP-II, SP-III
Volvo Pass Car (4-6 Speed AT), 97340
(Construction Equipment), 97341
JWS 3309, JWS 3314, JWS 3317
Kia Red-1, SP-II, SP-III
VW G-052-162, G-052-990, G-055-025
Idemitsu K17
ZF TE-ML, 03D, 04D, 05L, 09, 11B, 14A,
16L, 17C, TE-ML 14B
JASO 1-A, MAN 339F, 339 V1,339 V2, 339 Z1, 33

Here are the exceptions: DO NOT USE IN these transmissions:

Quote:
Please Note: Max ATF is not recommended for the following applications: Allison TES-389, DEXRON VI, Ford Type F and MERCON SP & LV,Honda DW-1, Hyundai SP-IV and NWS-9638, Kia SP-IV, JWS 3324, MAN 339 Z3, Mercedes Benz 236.8, 236.12, 236.14 & 236.15, Mitsubishi SP-IV and ATF J2, Nissan Matic-S, Saab 93-165-147, Shell M-1375.4 (ZF 6-Speed AT), Toyota WS (JWS 3324) and ZF TE-ML 14C. Max ATF is not recommended for use in any CVT or DCT applications.

 

[drolds]

David 1, looks like there is of a lot of speculation is in several responses. Assuming you are buying ATF for your 2002 Honda, then Z-1 is the correct viscosity of ATF. Use the Royal Purple ATF as it specifies that it meets the Honda Z-1 specifications for your car & your good to go. When I get a Honda (or any other make) in for a trans fluid change, I check to see exactly what the specification calls for. With Honda auto transmissions, it seems that starting about 2009 and definitely by 2011, the lower viscosity DW-1 is required w/o exception for all Honda cars.
The Z-1 fluid has a Kinematic viscosity at 100 deg C of about 7.5 cSt & has a Kinematic viscosity at 40 deg C of about 38 cSt and a Brookfield viscosity of about 9750 cP. This is the viscosity range of GM Dexron- III H, Ford-Mercon V, Toyota T-III & T-IV, etc. The DW-1 low viscosity fluid has a Kinematic viscosity at 100 deg C of about 5.8 to 6.0 cSt & a Kinematic viscosity at 40 deg C of about 28.5 cSt and a Brookfield viscosity of 9015. This is the viscosity range for GM Dexron 6, Ford Mercon LV, Toyota WS, etc.
While "backwards compatible" may be OK, the earlier Hondas were designed to use the Z-1 std. viscosity ATF in normal climates. GM cars 2005 & earlier were designed for Dexron III-H. Ford has backspec'd its cars from the mid 1990s to use 5W-20 oil in engines designed for 5W-30! This is more likely done for political reasons than engineering reasons. While the thinner fluids will work in the earlier vehicles, the earlier vehicles have not magically tightened their tolerances mandating the thinner fluids. If I service a Honda requiring only the low viscosity DW-1 fluid, that is what goes in. There is no harm done by installing the original viscosity specification Z-1 spec'd fluid in 2008 & earlier that was called for in the first place. The DW-1 is probably OK in the earlier Honda transmissions provided they are in excellent working order. Know exactly what is required for the exact model of transmission in question, especially in the last eight years.

Dr. Olds

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
While the thinner fluids will work in the earlier vehicles, the earlier vehicles have not magically tightened their tolerances mandating the thinner fluids.


AT dimensional clearances have changed little and have little to do with wear or performance.

The lower viscosity fluids were developed primarily for cold weather performance and secondarily for improvements in overall viscosimetrics at all temperatures.

The LV ATF fluids also came with improved oxidation resistance, FM stability, better AW stability, and better VI stability.

A small reduction in bulk viscosity means a very small increment in mpg improvment, if at all detectable.

 

[Quakish]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
While the thinner fluids will work in the earlier vehicles, the earlier vehicles have not magically tightened their tolerances mandating the thinner fluids.


AT dimensional clearances have changed little and have little to do with wear or performance.

The lower viscosity fluids were developed primarily for cold weather performance and secondarily for improvements in overall viscosimetrics at all temperatures.

The LV ATF fluids also came with improved oxidation resistance, FM stability, better AW stability, and better VI stability.

A small reduction in bulk viscosity means a very small increment in mpg improvment, if at all detectable.



I'm going to bookmark this and show to my old mechanic. he once told me i need to keep using Z-1 because he newer DW-1 was too thin. and then he compared it to using 5w-20 in an engine made for 5w-30 and how the thinner oil was not protecting as well and he was seeing more damage to engines, blah, blah.

of course he had an "in" with a supplier and he could still get Z-1 but at $12/quart. that's why he's my old mechanic

 

[fdcg27]

Z-1 also shears considerably in use, so its starting viscosity is of no real importance.
DW-1, along with Maxlife ATF and a host of other seemingly thinner ATFs are not nearly as subject to shearing, which makes them suitable for use in applications for which Z-1 was originally recommended.

 

[David1]

Originally Posted By: drolds
David 1, looks like there is of a lot of speculation is in several responses. Assuming you are buying ATF for your 2002 Honda, then Z-1 is the correct viscosity of ATF. Use the Royal Purple ATF as it specifies that it meets the Honda Z-1 specifications for your car & your good to go. When I get a Honda (or any other make) in for a trans fluid change, I check to see exactly what the specification calls for. With Honda auto transmissions, it seems that starting about 2009 and definitely by 2011, the lower viscosity DW-1 is required w/o exception for all Honda cars.
The Z-1 fluid has a Kinematic viscosity at 100 deg C of about 7.5 cSt & has a Kinematic viscosity at 40 deg C of about 38 cSt and a Brookfield viscosity of about 9750 cP. This is the viscosity range of GM Dexron- III H, Ford-Mercon V, Toyota T-III & T-IV, etc. The DW-1 low viscosity fluid has a Kinematic viscosity at 100 deg C of about 5.8 to 6.0 cSt & a Kinematic viscosity at 40 deg C of about 28.5 cSt and a Brookfield viscosity of 9015. This is the viscosity range for GM Dexron 6, Ford Mercon LV, Toyota WS, etc.
While "backwards compatible" may be OK, the earlier Hondas were designed to use the Z-1 std. viscosity ATF in normal climates. GM cars 2005 & earlier were designed for Dexron III-H. Ford has backspec'd its cars from the mid 1990s to use 5W-20 oil in engines designed for 5W-30! This is more likely done for political reasons than engineering reasons. While the thinner fluids will work in the earlier vehicles, the earlier vehicles have not magically tightened their tolerances mandating the thinner fluids. If I service a Honda requiring only the low viscosity DW-1 fluid, that is what goes in. There is no harm done by installing the original viscosity specification Z-1 spec'd fluid in 2008 & earlier that was called for in the first place. The DW-1 is probably OK in the earlier Honda transmissions provided they are in excellent working order. Know exactly what is required for the exact model of transmission in question, especially in the last eight years.

Dr. Olds



Ok I understand that and that might be why Valvoline Maxlife only says Honda / Acura ATF-Z1 and does not mention ATF-DW1.. what your saying makes sence.

Howeverrrrrrrrr

why does Castrol Transmax Multi Import say Honda / Acura ATF-Z1 & DW-1

Castrol Transmax™ Import Multi-Vehicle Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF)
CastrolTransmax™ImportMulti-VehicleAutomatic Transmission Fluidis for use in most Honda,Toyota,
Nissan and other imported vehicles.It exceeds the
requirements of the JASO-1A performance standard
created by Japanese Automobile Manufacturers.This
standard is recognized by Japanese OEMs in
certifying ATF for use in their vehicles

Then says

Recommended for use in vehicles as indicated below:
Manufacturer
Specification
Acura
ATF-Z1, ATF DW-1(except in CVTs)
Chrysler
ATF+3
®
, ATF+2
®
, , ATF+
®
Ford
MERCON V
®
, MERCON
®
, XT-9QMM5
General Motors DEXRON
®
-III H, II-D, II, DEXRON
®
; 9986195; Type A, Suffix A (TASA)
Honda
ATF-Z1, ATF DW-1, (except in CVTs)
Hyundai
SP-II, SP-III
Idemitsu
K17
Infiniti
Matic-D, Matic-J, Matic-K
Isuzu
Genuine
Kia
All specifications
Lexus
Type T, T-III, T-IV
Mazda
ATF M-V

Here is link to the Castrol PDF http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/4B94307E61A0AF6480257ADD007535BA/$File/Transmax%20Import%20MV%20PDS.pdf

all Im saying is this ATF other then Supertech that says both ATF Z1 and ATF DW-1

Why????

if Z1 and DW-1 are so Different.. then why can these 2 AT Fluids be used in both trans
1 made for Z1 and 1 made for DW-1

Strange?

 

[fdcg27]

Thing is, Valvoline Maxlife is recommended for DW-1 applications.
Says so right on the label.
It's also fully synthetic.
The problem with some multi-vehicle ATFs is that they shear too much to be suitable for certain applications.
This is usually not the case with synthetic basestock fluids.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
...all Im saying is this ATF other then Supertech that says both ATF Z1 and ATF DW-1

Why????

if Z1 and DW-1 are so Different.. then why can these 2 AT Fluids be used in both trans
1 made for Z1 and 1 made for DW-1

Strange?


I have to confess, I am having trouble trying to determine what your question may be.

Maybe you can take it one step at a time?

 

[David1]

Anyone?

Why does Castrol Multi Import say both for Honda ATF Z1 and DW-1

I think thats the only after market brand that says that.. other then supertech atf and I would never put that in a HONDA TRanny.


Also today I changed 3QT of Tranny fluid.. its been 10K since I did 4 drain and fills and I did something I never do.. I went cheap and got Castol Multi Import the one that says for HONDA and says ATF Z1 and DW-1

however my point for only 10K miles the Magnet on the trans plug was loaded with sludge / metal shavings.....

I mean as much as when I did my first drain and fill at like 60K

is that a good thing??? to see all that sludge and metal shavings on the magnet after only 10K miles.. or would it of been best to see little to none sludge / metal shavings or whatever that stuff is on the magnet.

However I drove 100 Miles today with the castol Multi Import and it felt fine.... I know is only 3 QTs... and there is prob way more DW-1 in the tranny....

However the tranny fluid was still nice shiny RED... It probably didnt need to be changed but I wanted to follow what I read here.

Also the Castol Muti Import was like $5.57 a QT at wallyworld and Honda DW-1 is near 11$ at the Honda dealer and that is RIP OFF if you ask me as far as price goes.

I might do another 3QT drain and fill with Maxx LIFE since I hear so many great things about it and since I was told my car can run ATF Z1 products and does NOT have to have DW-1.

and someone said mixing a few different ATF types can cause good results...

Also If the trans were to start to act funny, I could do a full 3 x drain and fill with HONDA GENUINE DW-1

However I do not think thats going to happen... Car has 183K and its the original Tranny.

 

[Hokiefyd]

David, I think you'll have to ask Castrol that question. Honda's ATF is not licensed...there are little published specifications and Honda doesn't "approve" any aftermarket fluids. Castrol has made the decision to stand behind their product when used in place of both Z1 and DW-1. Some other companies don't.

Redline, for example, has both D4 and D6 fluids and I think they recommend one for Z1 applications and the other for DW-1 applications. Pablo has mentioned before that he recommends two different Amsoil fluids, depending on if your car recommends Z1 or DW-1.

Castrol is looking for wide exposure to the market and feel confident recommending their product for use in place of either fluid. If you need a more technical answer, you may have to ask them.