ROTORS: AC Delco Gold / Professional vs Napa Premium

Which rotor should I get?

  • AC Delco Gold / Professional

    Votes: 6 28.6%
  • Napa Premium

    Votes: 8 38.1%
  • Other (Include w/ reply)

    Votes: 7 33.3%

  • Total voters
    21
Years ago Bendix had USA made ceramic pads that were like boat anchors but when they started producing or more than likely buying them in China performance really dropped off so I cant throw all ceramics in the same boat. The elements 3 are a ceramic hybrid with a good rating.
Try the Akebono they may be fine and you have them coming anyway, if the rotors get torn up its not a huge loss.
That’s very true. I sorta realized after my post that the compositions could be all over the place and the terms are “dumbed down” as a sales pitch. 😅

From the “description” and quality of Akebono/their reputation overall; they seem like they won’t bite any harder than the E3 pads, but that’s speculation.

Hoping it can’t be any worse than the Centric combo rotors/pads I bought that warped so quickly.

Hey, maybe I installed them poorly? I used a clamp with old pads over caliper and fully/slowly depressed it with the master cylinder lid removed. I’ll have to inspect condition when I do this job coming up.

Other than leaking break fluid at the caliper, would an inner vs outer pad wearing excessively indicate a caliper or pin issue?

I may have not added grease to the pin. 🤦‍♂️Could be the issue if it turns out the pads wore unevenly on one side?
 
That’s very true. I sorta realized after my post that the compositions could be all over the place and the terms are “dumbed down” as a sales pitch. 😅

From the “description” and quality of Akebono/their reputation overall; they seem like they won’t bite any harder than the E3 pads, but that’s speculation.

Hoping it can’t be any worse than the Centric combo rotors/pads I bought that warped so quickly.

Hey, maybe I installed them poorly? I used a clamp with old pads over caliper and fully/slowly depressed it with the master cylinder lid removed. I’ll have to inspect condition when I do this job coming up.

Other than leaking break fluid at the caliper, would an inner vs outer pad wearing excessively indicate a caliper or pin issue?

I may have not added grease to the pin. 🤦‍♂️Could be the issue if it turns out the pads wore unevenly on one side?
IMO the lube or lack of it could very well be the case here. I've done a few brake jobs now with the Element3 pads and rotor combos, all are working well and holding up. One of which is going through its third NY winter with little rust on the rotors. As long as they don't mess with the quality they will be my go to for brake pads and rotors.
 
IMO the lube or lack of it could very well be the case here. I've done a few brake jobs now with the Element3 pads and rotor combos, all are working well and holding up. One of which is going through its third NY winter with little rust on the rotors. As long as they don't mess with the quality they will be my go to for brake pads and rotors.
If I can confirm one pad wore and it was a lubricant failure I will update and put respect back on Centric.

I had a mechanic coworker explain; which I’m not sure I recall inner vs outer pad wearing more...but that one would mean a caliper issue and the other a pin issue...unless that’s overly generalized rather than app specific.
 
That’s very true. I sorta realized after my post that the compositions could be all over the place and the terms are “dumbed down” as a sales pitch. 😅

From the “description” and quality of Akebono/their reputation overall; they seem like they won’t bite any harder than the E3 pads, but that’s speculation.

Hoping it can’t be any worse than the Centric combo rotors/pads I bought that warped so quickly.

Hey, maybe I installed them poorly? I used a clamp with old pads over caliper and fully/slowly depressed it with the master cylinder lid removed. I’ll have to inspect condition when I do this job coming up.

Other than leaking break fluid at the caliper, would an inner vs outer pad wearing excessively indicate a caliper or pin issue?

I may have not added grease to the pin. 🤦‍♂️Could be the issue if it turns out the pads wore unevenly on one side?
Probably a pin issue although a sticking piston can cause inside pad wear, carefully check both items and use silicone grease or Sil-Glide on the pins and a lube with solids on the pad ears, clean everything of rust and corrosion on the caliper bracket. I use this on pins, so far the performance has been stellar and it is priced right.


For ears and mounting surfaces on the bracket..

 
Really no parts stores machine rotors there anymore? Here every parts place does it makes them a profit. When I was in Auto Zone last night someone was having theirs machined.
Nope, Napa used to, not any more. Word is if you go there and ask the owner and hes in a good mood they *might* do it. But it's not a service they offer.

Our autozone here never machined rotors. I guess our O'Reillys does but the times I tried no one was there to do it or thier brake lathe was broke.

We used to have an automotive machine shop, that went away when car quest closed.

The local shops dont even have a brake lathe! I guess I could try the Ford or chevy dealer.

Like anything else, if you want to get rotors machined it's going to involve a two hour round trip.
 
Probably a pin issue although a sticking piston can cause inside pad wear, carefully check both items and use silicone grease or Sil-Glide on the pins and a lube with solids on the pad ears, clean everything of rust and corrosion on the caliper bracket. I use this on pins, so far the performance has been stellar and it is priced right.


For ears and mounting surfaces on the bracket..

Thanks! I’ll check for rust on the caliper as well.

Could very well have been installation error by way of oversight in these areas. I’ll confirm pad wear during job. Appreciate all of the input.
 
Nope, Napa used to, not any more. Word is if you go there and ask the owner and hes in a good mood they *might* do it. But it's not a service they offer.

Our autozone here never machined rotors. I guess our O'Reillys does but the times I tried no one was there to do it or thier brake lathe was broke.

We used to have an automotive machine shop, that went away when car quest closed.

The local shops dont even have a brake lathe! I guess I could try the Ford or chevy dealer.

Like anything else, if you want to get rotors machined it's going to involve a two hour round trip.
Yeah. Here all the parts stores do it Advanced Auto, Auto Zone, Napa, O’Reilly, Federated. O’Reilly even still machines drums. I always just prefer to replace mine.
 
Some pads do not play well with all rotors. They may not be a problem at all or they may grind the rotor up badly.
I know what pads and rotors play well together on the stuff I commonly use eg Textar, Pagid, Advics and ATE pads play well with ATE, Zimmerman, Pagid rotors are just some examples. With the Elements 3 I have only used the pads and rotors and they work well together.
I am not a fan of Akebono (personal preference) and never use today them so I no experience with them.

These are elements 3 rear rotors, calipers and pads on a VW, they are on their third winter with almost 30K, the thing lives in salt. They do look better than OE at the same time/miles. I have to wash it next week, we just had a couple of storms with more on the way and it will be running through it. The E brake still works perfectly which is the very common failure point with these even with OE calipers. $200 on the door for everything and almost 1K for OE.

View attachment 45401

View attachment 45402

Agree. I have Ate pads on Ate rotors on the wagon rear. Other than high levels of brake dust they are wearing quite well.
 
Update: I swapped in new pads and rotors last night. Also, completely bled all 4 wheels.

Passenger side looked fine. Plenty of pad life etc. guide pins were okay but we cleaned them up and re-applied fresh silicone paste, etc.

Driver side showed 1 of the guide pins as in need of addressing. The pads may have slightly worn uneven, slightly more the inner pad. But not by much.

Now, anecdotal is the following: It appeared the caliper on the driver side was more difficult to compress back for new pad installation. 🤔

Also, one of the pad hardware clips on the driver side bracket had some apparent light grove digging into the path the pad moves along. My BIL spotted it.

The sound I was hearing from apparent warped rotor is much improved but...

There remains some pulsation like sound of a similar pattern while applying the brakes at low speeds when hot.

Rhythmic pulsation sound. Is that normal? I believed it was linked to the “warped rotor” situation I was apparently in before; though it may have just been a sticking caliper guide pin on the driver side.

Other than this sound, the akebono pads are whisper quiet.

Am I reading more into an apparent caliper issue on the drive side? Could it be slightly binding internally? Or was this merely the guide pin causing the pad to remain touching at slow speeds and at full temp? I hear nothing at first driving the vehicle from cold.

I bought the items @Trav suggested and used silicone paste on the pins, after cleaning out the bracket itself and the holes. Also, brake grease on the pad ears only. We bled all 4 lines several times no problems.

Still, that driver side caliper wasn’t quite as easy to get back seated. I worked on that side last though, so maybe tiredness was a factor. 2 cents observation.

We used an old pad seated against the piston and a C-Clamp to center compress it down.

Any further feedback is appreciated! 😁

I’d say the Centric rotor/pad combo was not a problem at all either way. My bad!
 
+3 on the raybestos element 3, I have them on the caravan front brakes. I also bought them last year for the civic. haven't installed them yet on the civic and will get them for the caravan rear brakes this spring. They hold up well in the rust belt.
 
When compressing calipers, did you open the bleeder?

Prior to mounting the rotors, did you clean them? did you clean the hubs with a hub cleaning tool or equivalent?

Depending on age/mileage, pins and boots need replacing. They are wear items.

And since vehicle is a 2007, I would've rebuilt the calipers.

How old are the antidrag springs, if equipped or used?
 
When compressing calipers, did you open the bleeder?

Prior to mounting the rotors, did you clean them? did you clean the hubs with a hub cleaning tool or equivalent?

Depending on age/mileage, pins and boots need replacing. They are wear items.

And since vehicle is a 2007, I would've rebuilt the calipers.

How old are the antidrag springs, if equipped or used?
Yes, for the compression bleeder was opened.

Cleaned new rotors with brake cleaner. Cleaned hub with wire brush and wire wheel prior to installing. Cleaned and re-used pins and boots; as that appeared just in need of cleaning. Never heard of replacing them. It’s Georgia not the rust belt; if that is a factor.

Brakes seem fine now other than the subtle noise once already hot and coming to a stop.

It seems like that could be the same noise which was far more pronounced prior to the work yesterday.

Hopefully, it’s not a failing caliper, but could it indicate some other issue such as a binding pin etc?

Lacking in experience, so all thoughts welcome & appreciated.

Thank you!
 
So...um, other that having to go back and re-do my work on this recent job (still having driver-side pulsation after it heats up)...

Turns out the Raybestos Element3 I got for $16 pre-shipping from RA...have identical pictures to the Napa Ultra Rotors...listed at $75 on their website:


Compared to both RA and Amazon listings:



Or...is everything a stock image these days?

PS: Yeah, I believe I need new rubber boots or clean them further, but I think the Centric parts were fine. I wish I could edit the OP...definitely was a problem with pins/caliper/etc rather than the parts. Still trying to hunt down by process of elimination, but will go back and re-do driver "problem side" again later this month.

PPS: Is there a difference in the clips aftermarket? I believe both clips per-Honda part websites show matching upper and lower clips for the bracket where pads sit, but several kits online and the one I got with the Akebono pads have 2 of the clips with extra pieces...

Centric ones before came with these:


Akebono came with these:


Could not get pads to seat/move easily with those.

So, I probably should make a new thread but ya...got to redo the job. Seems the pins may be sticking some, though not as bad as before.
 
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Could you have a brake hose failing?
Maybe. What makes you think so?

Instead of fluid being compromised at operating temps from needing replacement, a hose collapsing in on itself?

We bled all 4 brakes no problem, so I didn’t think any line had trouble and rather it was some other issue at the pad/caliper level.

Inconsistent pressure of pad to the rotor when hot...then remaining pad to rotor noise after releasing pedal at low speeds...that’s what seems to be the primary symptom.

^It was present more and more before replacing pads/rotors and “attempting” to correctly service the guide pins. Basically...the boots still had somewhat of a sticking residue left over. I wasn’t thorough enough.

I’m getting new boots to rule that out. I will also confirm pads move freely along clips/bracket or if they seem to be binding; after being in service on vehicle.

Would a failing caliper do this kind of thing, to go along with your idea of a bad hose?
 
Update: I have installed a new Raybestos caliper on the side in question.

So far, the pulsation sound on that side is gone. I think the culprit was a failing caliper; which may have warped the Centric rotors.

I will update again if the problem persists.

Thanks for all contributing to this thread.🙂
 
Itslimjim - Just curious what line of Centric rotors did you use? C-Tek or their Premium line?

For the last 3 years or so I have only used Centric Premium rotors with Raybestos Element3 EHT Hybrid brakes and never had a problem. One time on my Sienna I decide to save a few bucks and went with Centric C-Tek rotors paired with Raybestos Element3 EHT brakes and the rotors started warping not long after I replaced them so I thought that all of the cheaper priced rotors must be junk.

From what you guys are saying here the Raybestos are good rotors and with the attractive price I will give them a shot on my next brake job.
 
I was trying Centric brake products(recommended here at Bob's) and I am just not happy with their products and I won't get'em anymore. Enough is enough.

I mean, I wasn't getting their economy line either, although I had tried them too. In fact I was getting the Posi-Quiet Ceramic and 120 coated rotors only to find that the rotors warped in short time and the pads didn't stop the car the way I like brakes to stop my vehicles(like OE).
 
I was trying Centric brake products(recommended here at Bob's) and I am just not happy with their products and I won't get'em anymore. Enough is enough.

I mean, I wasn't getting their economy line either, although I had tried them too. In fact I was getting the Posi-Quiet Ceramic and 120 coated rotors only to find that the rotors warped in short time and the pads didn't stop the car the way I like brakes to stop my vehicles(like OE).

What rotors and pads do you use?
 
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