As many here know, I've been beating the drum of low rotor runout being essential to a good brake job. I try to include a nod to the possibility of poor break-in/pad imprinting as well, as well as the other oft-overlooked basics, like checking pin lubrication (as well as pad ear track condition on the Dakota's different brake design.) With the exception of my Dakota, I've been getting 80K+ lifetimes with zero shudder out of front disc brakes on my vehicles.
My 2 vehicle history of runout-managed, well lubricated disc brake installs:
The Pilot fronts, now at 214K, has 1 year 11 months and 42K miles on NAPA Ultra Premium rotors and AdaptiveOne pads. The previous set went 5 years, 3 months and 76K miles on Dealer on-vehicle resurfaced OEM rotors and a new set of pads, and had 10K or more life on them before I replaced them. The rears are grindy/noisy after 2 years, 5 months and 54K miles due pin boot failure, the lower pins on both sides getting washed of grease and locking up, tilting the pads. This has been corrected, and the pads and rotors will be replaced soon, but still no shudder. Previous dealer installed rear pads lasted 9 years, 7 months and 62K miles.
The Corolla, now at 192K, I replaced the OEM front brakes in 2014 at 105K miles, has 4 years, 9 months, and 87K on the Centric rotors and Wagner ThermoQuiet pads. I have to regrease the TQ pads every 18 months or so to keep them quiet. The rear shoes are still OEM with 192K miles, but are ready for replacement soon.
The Dakota disc brakes are a set of special degenerative cases (rust, seized calipers) that I may discuss in a later thread, but shudder has not been a problem since I started measuring runout about a decade ago.
Which brings me to my new-to-me, low mileage 2010 Camry LE. It had slight brake shudder when I bought it, which over 700 miles quickly got worse. A few days ago I pulled the front disc brakes down for a clean, inspect, and lube. I measured runout of both front rotors, both are solid at .001" of runout. However the left side has significant uneven pad transfer issues (see picture). Since I had it apart and no new rotors available, late in the evening with parts shops closing up, I had nothing to lose and scuffed up that rotor with the well-worn 80-grit belt on my belt sander, and then proceeded to do a pad break-in procedure. (Several consecutive hard near-stops without fully coming to a stop.) It was just an experiment, I figured I'd be replacing them the next day when the parts store was open.
Well, whaddya know, brake shudder went from worrisome/annoying to barely there. 100 miles later and it's even better. The pads have 1/2 or more of their life left at 40K miles (assuming they are OEM, they look like Toyota pads and pad back shims, and wear depth is just about right.) I'll run them until worn out or shudder returns, and report back.
And from now on, I will give more than a passing nod to the issues of pad imprinting in the absence of runout.
My 2 vehicle history of runout-managed, well lubricated disc brake installs:
The Pilot fronts, now at 214K, has 1 year 11 months and 42K miles on NAPA Ultra Premium rotors and AdaptiveOne pads. The previous set went 5 years, 3 months and 76K miles on Dealer on-vehicle resurfaced OEM rotors and a new set of pads, and had 10K or more life on them before I replaced them. The rears are grindy/noisy after 2 years, 5 months and 54K miles due pin boot failure, the lower pins on both sides getting washed of grease and locking up, tilting the pads. This has been corrected, and the pads and rotors will be replaced soon, but still no shudder. Previous dealer installed rear pads lasted 9 years, 7 months and 62K miles.
The Corolla, now at 192K, I replaced the OEM front brakes in 2014 at 105K miles, has 4 years, 9 months, and 87K on the Centric rotors and Wagner ThermoQuiet pads. I have to regrease the TQ pads every 18 months or so to keep them quiet. The rear shoes are still OEM with 192K miles, but are ready for replacement soon.
The Dakota disc brakes are a set of special degenerative cases (rust, seized calipers) that I may discuss in a later thread, but shudder has not been a problem since I started measuring runout about a decade ago.
Which brings me to my new-to-me, low mileage 2010 Camry LE. It had slight brake shudder when I bought it, which over 700 miles quickly got worse. A few days ago I pulled the front disc brakes down for a clean, inspect, and lube. I measured runout of both front rotors, both are solid at .001" of runout. However the left side has significant uneven pad transfer issues (see picture). Since I had it apart and no new rotors available, late in the evening with parts shops closing up, I had nothing to lose and scuffed up that rotor with the well-worn 80-grit belt on my belt sander, and then proceeded to do a pad break-in procedure. (Several consecutive hard near-stops without fully coming to a stop.) It was just an experiment, I figured I'd be replacing them the next day when the parts store was open.
Well, whaddya know, brake shudder went from worrisome/annoying to barely there. 100 miles later and it's even better. The pads have 1/2 or more of their life left at 40K miles (assuming they are OEM, they look like Toyota pads and pad back shims, and wear depth is just about right.) I'll run them until worn out or shudder returns, and report back.
And from now on, I will give more than a passing nod to the issues of pad imprinting in the absence of runout.
