Rotella Gas Truck - How Synthetic Is It?

[wwillson]

I would be hard pressed to believe that I have a carbon or sludging issue given the relatively low mileage and frequent OCIs with nothing but synthetic oils since it was new.

Not sludging, but carbon deposits on the hottest areas of the pistons, the crown and ring lands. I thought that same with the 3.6L in my Durango. How could it have any deposits, because I have run synthetics at low to moderate OCIs since new? We saw the amount of carbon the HPL oil removed from the internals. My HPL run started at 111,000 miles, so more than double your miles, but the deposits surely didn't start after 50,000 miles.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/dodge-durango-3-6l-hpl-5w-20-26-015-miles-on-oil.347523/

Edit:

I forgot I posted a picture of the oil filter from our Charger with 60,000 miles after 5,000 miles of running HPL. This engine also ran on synthetics with 5,000-8,000 mile OCIs. HPL removed carbon...

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...5w-20-21-079-miles-on-oil.344904/post-5863111

 

[CarbonSteel]

I'd say run a few more OCIs then switch. for a few more OCIs to see the difference. When I got my new to me minivan, I used Pennzoil platinum ultra in it and the oil turned black almost immediately. my first thought, this stuff is garbage. Then the next OCI it got better, and so no until after the 4th OCI, I was ashamed to change it because it was only pancake syrup colored.

Since you had Mobil oil in there that was what you consider inferior, the RGT might be cleaning out what it left behind. Give it a few OCI to see if it cleans it out completely or if it continues and is actually the oil causing the problem.

You UOA will tell you if the RGT is causing your engine to grind itself into a pile of metal shavings before the next OCIs are done.... 99.9999% chance it isn't.

For clarity, I have not used Mobil in this engine, I was comparing it to MS5K that I have used in a different vehicle. I have ran 6 OCs at 5K each of RGT and they have all been the same in physical characteristics and given the number of OCs that have happened in 45K miles I am struggling to believe that RGT is "cleaning" the engine--there should be nothing to clean.

No good way to explain what is happening, totally get that, but I do think that RGT is not as good as other main stream oils.

 

[wwillson]

there should be nothing to clean.

I'll bet you lunch you have some carbon on your piston crown and ring lands. Wouldn't it be fun to be able to look inside the engine without taking it apart?

 

[CarbonSteel]

I'll bet you lunch you have some carbon on your piston crown and ring lands. Wouldn't it be fun to be able to look inside the engine without taking it apart?

Can't be...I have been running Gumout All-In-One at least once per OC (ref the article we edited together). I am joking of course, there most certainly will be some despite the use of Gumout.

I am just skeptical there is so much that in 30K miles of running RGT it continues to "find" carbon to remove in quantities high enough to cause it to have the properties it does when drained. This "feels" more like RGT does not handle oil temperatures of 220°F and above as well as it should. It definitely oxidizes faster and at a higher rate than other synthetics I have used and in 5K miles has oxidized 50% above the virgin number. It averages 14.2 versus a starting point of 7.0 in a virgin sample with the last two runs hitting 17 and 16 respectively.

> I installed Valvoline Extended Protection on my last OC--those glug free jugs are sublime. I will see how it fares against the RGT, in the end, it could just be it is what it is...

 

[Rand]

I have noticed the RGT gets dark.. but that is engine and additive pack dependent.
my 2007 focus came out honey colored at 5000+ miles.
my 2002 ranger was near black at 1000 miles.

Color by itself doesnt bother me.

Now on the jeep where it comes out thin with a pungent gas smell and as dark as india ink in 4500 miles..
yea not leaving that in much longer.. dont care if its m1 EP, RGT, or PP. Its had PP for every change except 1 change of RGT..
and will get PP probably for the rest of its life with my 2$/5qt PP stash

 

[Gene K]

Guys, he compared the RGT to Mobil Super 5k, not Mobil 3000. Just wanted to clarify.

Guys, he compared the RGT to Mobil Super 5k, not Mobil 3000. Just wanted to clarify.

My guess is it's similar to Mobil Super Synthetic 7.5k.

 

[mpack88]

My Taurus has used it in the past 5 oil changes and my uoa come back that it's good for 5k.

 

[danez_yoda]

For clarity, I have not used Mobil in this engine, I was comparing it to MS5K that I have used in a different vehicle. I have ran 6 OCs at 5K each of RGT and they have all been the same in physical characteristics and given the number of OCs that have happened in 45K miles I am struggling to believe that RGT is "cleaning" the engine--there should be nothing to clean.

No good way to explain what is happening, totally get that, but I do think that RGT is not as good as other main stream oils.

Perfect, now is time to switch to another oil for a few OCI to see if that changes. If so you have your answer. This engine does not like RGT or vice versa.

 

[kschachn]

Perfect, now is time to switch to another oil for a few OCI to see if that changes. If so you have your answer. This engine does not like RGT or vice versa.

What parameers on a UOA do you look at to tell how well an engine likes an oil? And when did that same singular UOA all of a sudden become technically relevant in order to determine comparative oil quality?

 

[CarbonSteel]

Perfect, now is time to switch to another oil for a few OCI to see if that changes. If so you have your answer. This engine does not like RGT or vice versa.

I used the new Valvoline Extended Protection when I changed it some days ago. I will see how it fares versus RGT. Neither of them have a high starting TBN (both are <7.0), so they may both be 5K oils despite the obvious marketing labels.

 

[madeej11]

I do. And guess what? 90% of this oil industry is marketing.

Marketing is not quite the same as the cosmetic appearance of engine oil on store shelves. Motorcraft sells well also with a red bottle and the label is pretty plain Jane too. Riddle me that.

 

[doublebase]

Marketing is not quite the same as the cosmetic appearance of engine oil on store shelves. Motorcraft sells well also with a red bottle and the label is pretty plain Jane too. Riddle me that.

Motorcraft’s bottle doesn’t have a picture of a white truck pulling a light blue boat up a gray country side road beside a stretch of grass, on it. And THAT bottle is very much marketing.

Motorcraft is red and black. Done. Simple. Nice.

Meanwhile you have Shell Rotella throwing their trademark yellow shell on the top of all this madness...the boat, the truck, the road, the faded grass, the red, the white. It’s horrible (in my opinion). Did THAT marketing portion ruin their oil? I don’t think it helped. The other portion of their marketing probably didn’t help either (calling it “gas truck”) when it could be used in anything. I would venture to say that the head of this marketing team has been fired. You literally could get this oil a couple of years ago for free...autozone clearance, added to Shell’s rebate. Free. And the oil is now discontinued.

If you don’t think the appearance of the bottle itself matters at all, then why do these companies change their appearance/shape/color scheme/lettering every so often?

The RGT looked like a generic oil I was buying. I bought it because it was on sale and had a high moly content. But I’d be willing to bet some avoided it just because it looked so generic. I hated that bottle. When all things are equal with oil...certifications, price, performance. What does it come down to? For some it’s the bottle.

 

[blufeb95]

I don't know why SOPUS tried pushing a Truck & SUV specific oil again, remember back in the early 2000s they had a Synthetic Blend specifically for "4x4s, SUVs and Trucks"
https://web.archive.org/web/2002060...state.com/pages/products/oil_synthetic4x4.asp

 

[madeej11]

Motorcraft’s bottle doesn’t have a picture of a white truck pulling a light blue boat up a gray country side road beside a stretch of grass, on it. And THAT bottle is very much marketing.

Motorcraft is red and black. Done. Simple. Nice.

Meanwhile you have Shell Rotella throwing their trademark yellow shell on the top of all this madness...the boat, the truck, the road, the faded grass, the red, the white. It’s horrible (in my opinion). Did THAT marketing portion ruin their oil? I don’t think it helped. The other portion of their marketing probably didn’t help either (calling it “gas truck”) when it could be used in anything. I would venture to say that the head of this marketing team has been fired. You literally could get this oil a couple of years ago for free...autozone clearance, added to Shell’s rebate. Free. And the oil is now discontinued.

If you don’t think the appearance of the bottle itself matters at all, then why do these companies change their appearance/shape/color scheme/lettering every so often?

The RGT looked like a generic oil I was buying. I bought it because it was on sale and had a high moly content. But I’d be willing to bet some avoided it just because it looked so generic. I hated that bottle. When all things are equal with oil...certifications, price, performance. What does it come down to? For some it’s the bottle.

Motorcraft’s bottle doesn’t have a picture of a white truck pulling a light blue boat up a gray country side road beside a stretch of grass, on it. And THAT bottle is very much marketing.

Motorcraft is red and black. Done. Simple. Nice.

Meanwhile you have Shell Rotella throwing their trademark yellow shell on the top of all this madness...the boat, the truck, the road, the faded grass, the red, the white. It’s horrible (in my opinion). Did THAT marketing portion ruin their oil? I don’t think it helped. The other portion of their marketing probably didn’t help either (calling it “gas truck”) when it could be used in anything. I would venture to say that the head of this marketing team has been fired. You literally could get this oil a couple of years ago for free...autozone clearance, added to Shell’s rebate. Free. And the oil is now discontinued.

If you don’t think the appearance of the bottle itself matters at all, then why do these companies change their appearance/shape/color scheme/lettering every so often?

The RGT looked like a generic oil I was buying. I bought it because it was on sale and had a high moly content. But I’d be willing to bet some avoided it just because it looked so generic. I hated that bottle. When all things are equal with oil...certifications, price, performance. What does it come down to? For some it’s the bottle.

They say that a picture is worth a thousand words. With that post you were getting close. Isn't there also an image of a family picnic on the RGT bottle you forgot to mention?

 

[mdtaylor86]

I disagree. Black oil is likely burnt and/or contains a high concentration of undesirable contaminants. I don't want that stuff running through my engine. I'd rather err on the side of caution and change the oil early.

Of all the oils listed below, only RGT turned pitch black after 5K miles. All others were medium amber at 7-9K+ miles in the same engine.
M1, QSUD, PP, PUP, G-Oil, Castrol Edge, RGT.

Based on my experience I will not use RGT again in my high-revving 2ZZ. YMMV

Are you suggesting that an oil meeting all the same specs as the other oils, including some from the same manufacturer, either burned up and/or underperformed so much regarding wear protection that it contained such a higher concentration of contaminants that it was visibly noticeable after 5K miles while the other oils were completely fine after nearly double that? I mean, think about that statement for a minute and what it would mean if it were true. I'm not saying RGT is the best oil ever made but it does meet API and manufacturer specs and that means a certain minimum performance, guaranteed, unless something has gone biblically wrong.

Confirmation bias is a heck of a thing.

 

[blupupher]

I don't know why SOPUS tried pushing a Truck & SUV specific oil again, remember back in the early 2000s they had a Synthetic Blend specifically for "4x4s, SUVs and Trucks"
https://web.archive.org/web/2002060...state.com/pages/products/oil_synthetic4x4.asp
View attachment 94022

I always thought those bottles were cool, and wish they had kept them.

Seems like several have tried to market an oil for trucks or 4x4 vehicles, and none have really ever sold well, and tend to be off the market in a year or two.

 

[blufeb95]

Seems like several have tried to market an oil for trucks or 4x4 vehicles, and none have really ever sold well, and tend to be off the market in a year or two.

Exxon Mobil Originally Had Mobil 1 Truck & SUV 5W40, that was dual rated CI-4/SL oil, then around the time of the SM and CI-4+ transition they split it out into 5W-40 Turbo Diesel Truck and 5W-30 Truck & SUV, then the Truck & SUV oil eventually disappeared and nobody noticed it was gone, then they brought out 0W20, 5W20, and 5W30 Truck & SUV in 2019, which was first really noted here when it hit the clearance rack at Tractor Supply, I still see it on the shelf at Meijer but I wonder how long before it quietly vanishes from the market again.

 

[ProbeGT]

Are you suggesting that an oil meeting all the same specs as the other oils, including some from the same manufacturer, either burned up and/or underperformed so much regarding wear protection that it contained such a higher concentration of contaminants that it was visibly noticeable after 5K miles while the other oils were completely fine after nearly double that?

In a word, yes.

Shell discontinued RGT shortly after its introduction. I wonder why.
I wrote independently about the burnt RGT observation a while ago in my 2ZZ post. I wrote it of as a one-time bad oil change but it was always in the back of my mind. Never thought of it in terms of "how synthetic" the formulation was. I think the OP may be onto something here. RGT performed suspiciously similar to conventional/synth-blend oils of yesteryear.

 

[mdtaylor86]

In a word, yes.

Shell discontinued RGT shortly after its introduction. I wonder why.
I wrote independently about the burnt RGT observation a while ago in my 2ZZ post. I wrote it of as a one-time bad oil change but it was always in the back of my mind. Never thought of it in terms of "how synthetic" the formulation was. I think the OP may be onto something here. RGT performed suspiciously similar to conventional/synth-blend oils of yesteryear.

^^^This is precisely the confirmation bias I was talking about.

Oils enter the market and leave the market all the time. That isn't evidence they were bad. There are things like profitability to take into account, among multitudes of other things when determining if you should continue to make a product.

You already made your observation, formed a hypothesis about what the issue might be, and then point to any anecdotal evidence (because it's certainly not scientific) to confirm your hypothesis while conveniently leaving out or dismissing all of the other evidence to the contrary. Some of that evidence I have personally provided in the UOA forum.

Full disclosure, I used RGT in my fleet for about a year, but decided to stop because I wasn't liking the price and it was harder to find than other oils. I don't get personally attached to oils and I certainly don't have much of an opinion on RGT, but I'm just not understanding the basis for your position here.

 

[silversport]

Shell RGT is still listed as a product Shell sells as of this post so it has not been discontinued...and Mobil 1 Truck and SUV is also still being manufactured so it has not been discontinued either...

full disclosure since I have bought Shell RGT and used it in a few vehicles without any known issues...current user is a 2014 Cadillac CTS Sport Wagon with the 3.0...I'm currently just over 2K miles and almost 3 months...the oil on the dipstick appears medium brown in color with not burned smell...I've used this oil in a 2007 F150 and a 2013 Malibu turbo without anything appearing out of the ordinary...

my preference in motor oil is Mobil 1 but picked up quite a few of the Shell RGT jugs and quarts when seen on sale awhile back...

good luck with your choice,

Bill