Flashpoint is very high especially for closed cup testing..
RLI Biosyn 0w20, 5106 Mi on oil, 2004 Prius
- Thread starter dcoyne78
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Nice low wear numbers. For what purpose is the Antimony (Sb, 191 PPM) used for as an additive?
The viscosity dropped somewhat. Perhaps this is normal?
From UOA:
Visc40 38.5
Visc100 7.8
From RLI Spec for 0W-20:
Visc40 44
Visc100 8.8
From UOA:
Visc40 38.5
Visc100 7.8
From RLI Spec for 0W-20:
Visc40 44
Visc100 8.8
There's 0.7% fuel dilution. By itself, this will drop the viscosity a bit. But, it's still well within mid-grade for a 20W at 100C.
While it is definately an improvement I can not see where the previous UOA was that bad. Sure fuel dilloutin was up a bit but did you ever try RTS to see how that did or M1 0W40??? I only ask becuase RLI is some expensive stuff. the only real significant difference in my mind is the level of fuel dillution.
I'am I reading the tests wrong or were the blakstone fuel dilution numbers with M1 bruce
Bruce, Blackstone uses a open cup measurement for flashpoint, whereas Dyson's contract lab uses closed cup. Blackstone has shown consistently to miss fuel dilution. They compute dilution from flashpoint and seem to get flash wrong. The Dyson numbers for flashpoint and fuel dilution can be cross checked. Dilution is measured with FTIR, whereas flashpoint is measured with closed cup testing. The correlation between the two is extraordinarily good. The only valid comparison you can make for this UOA is against the last UOA done at Dyson Analysis, which is posted somewhere in in this thread.
Here is some information to complement RI_RS4's comments.
http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=352
My Civic with now 390k miles with no internal engine work has fuel dilution of .7 and after RLI it's nil.
http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=352
My Civic with now 390k miles with no internal engine work has fuel dilution of .7 and after RLI it's nil.
MolaKule
Staff member
Many thanks MolaKule
Agree flash pt closed or open IMHO is not worth the test unless a baseline of the Virgin oil is done even then FTIR is much more accurate.
bruce
Here's a plot I did of Dyson Analysis Fuel Dilution vs. Flashpoint. I was surprised at how linear the relationship was over multiple samples and oil types. Fuel is measured using FTIR.
Thanks for all the comments everyone. In some ways this analysis doesn't look all that great whenit is compared to earlier Blackstone analyses. TD's lab tends to report somewhat higher numbers so the results from different labs are not directly comparable. I am hoping to be able to extend my drain intervals if the fuel dilution stays under control. From what I understand the fuel dilution is not a good thing and the problem is missed by many labs that base fuel dilution on flashpoint, the problem is much more widespread in newer cars than most people realize.
Dennis
Dennis
Is it possible to make a comparison between the Biosyn and the Mobil 1? To my simple way of looking at the numbers, the Mobil 1 appeared to do just as well as the Biosyn. Given that Mobil 1 noticeably cheaper, is Mobil 1 a better choice. I ask because I have been using Mobil 1 and am planning to switch to Biosyn for comparison.
There is a comparison in the thread using Dyson Analysis on M1 for a 14001 mile oil sample. If you assume linear wear rates (which is often not correct), aluminum is about the same and Iron is about 18% lower. Fuel dilution is running about 1/2 it's previous level. My best guess is that iron wear rates with BioSyn are running even lower than it might seem at first glance, since the BioSyn sample contains oil left over metal from the previous oil.
Another interesting point to note. It is my understanding the RLI is using the results of many UOA's in various engines to fine tune and improve their formulations. This oil, rather than being fossilized like most oils, is actually evolving. That bodes well for us consumers.
Kaizen (Japanese continuous improvement) or the competition will eat your lunch.
If I'm not mistaken, these prius engines are not running for 100% of the miles in an oci. If you assume in city driving that they're running 65%, wouldn't you need to gross-up the ppm's to give you a real picture of the 5k miles OCI numbers? After all, a good percentage of the time, the electric motor is propelling the car with the gas engine turned off.
To put it another way, it is not strictly correct to compare a prius' wear metals against an engine that is propelling the car through every mile on the odometer.
How do prius owners account for this when interpreting their ppm's of wear metals? Alternatively, do prius owners increase their OCI's to account for this?
To put it another way, it is not strictly correct to compare a prius' wear metals against an engine that is propelling the car through every mile on the odometer.
How do prius owners account for this when interpreting their ppm's of wear metals? Alternatively, do prius owners increase their OCI's to account for this?
One of the many reasons why its not comparable to compare various engines via UOA.
It's tough to compare one engine with a different engine. Driving habits and weather are major contributers to wear numbers.
In my work so far BioSyn is a completely different game. We are going to produce some smog test results with some additional analysis. As soon as we get a good baseline with one of our test cars I'll post the numbers. UOA's are good information but many drivers have to pass a smog test, not a uoa so this will be a different look. I will include compression testing and other stuff. We are also going to do some testing with Auto-Rx and use it a bit different by controlled test.
One good method the Prius uses to reduce engine wear is to turn off the engine. It also brings up it's own problems with fuel dilution and temp regulation. The thermos is a big help but this is also a new game and will take some time to figure out.
In my work so far BioSyn is a completely different game. We are going to produce some smog test results with some additional analysis. As soon as we get a good baseline with one of our test cars I'll post the numbers. UOA's are good information but many drivers have to pass a smog test, not a uoa so this will be a different look. I will include compression testing and other stuff. We are also going to do some testing with Auto-Rx and use it a bit different by controlled test.
One good method the Prius uses to reduce engine wear is to turn off the engine. It also brings up it's own problems with fuel dilution and temp regulation. The thermos is a big help but this is also a new game and will take some time to figure out.
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