wow amigo... thanks for joining... and posting pretty pictures even!
Maybe you can field a few questions if this thread isn't played out yet.
Maybe you can field a few questions if this thread isn't played out yet.
25,000mi ~running Amsoil SSO 0w-30 in a 2010 Prius
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Originally Posted By: windstrings
Living in texas with moderately hot temperatures.. I could have gotten a tad thin but according to the report.. not metals we high etc.
As far as silicon levels.. it was discussed as to whether the stock factory air filter was sufficient verses a leak "has a rubber seal all around" verses the sheer volume of air pulled in over a 25K mile run.
We do get lots of windy days and I'm sure lots of "silicon" is in the air.....
I guess the next question would be.. "does that silicon hurt and cause damage and if so is there a way to remove it or prevent it from reaching such levels?"
Maybe you guys can answer... this may be the weak link limiting long run times in my area.
I was curious to see the reaction among the Prius folks, so I did a quick check of the thread over there. I stumbled across your comment here:
"While they hinted I might check my air filter due to the silicon levels.... I have "never" changed it.. I only blow it out periodically with compressed air..... all the seals are perfect... especially on my 2010..."
Hmm....the silicone levels (which really aren't that high given the mileage) make more sense now... That's a pretty bad idea, both blowing compressed air over the filter and removing it in the first place. I'd suggest adding an air restriction gauge like one of these , which ever is appropriate for your intake system, and leaving it alone. Every time you open it up, you're adding contaminants to your engine, and blowing compressed air is just pushing contaminants into the pleats. Not good. Additionally, you aren't taking advantage of the improved filtration as your air filter gets "dirty". I'd give this a look.
Besides that, I seriously do think this could be a good application for a bypass filter and 100K OCI's or greater, sampling every 25K. Between consumption and top-offs when changing the bypass and full flow filter, TBN should still be within range almost indefinitely. As long as the oil stays in grade, you'd have nothing to worry about.
Living in texas with moderately hot temperatures.. I could have gotten a tad thin but according to the report.. not metals we high etc.
As far as silicon levels.. it was discussed as to whether the stock factory air filter was sufficient verses a leak "has a rubber seal all around" verses the sheer volume of air pulled in over a 25K mile run.
We do get lots of windy days and I'm sure lots of "silicon" is in the air.....
I guess the next question would be.. "does that silicon hurt and cause damage and if so is there a way to remove it or prevent it from reaching such levels?"
Maybe you guys can answer... this may be the weak link limiting long run times in my area.
I was curious to see the reaction among the Prius folks, so I did a quick check of the thread over there. I stumbled across your comment here:
"While they hinted I might check my air filter due to the silicon levels.... I have "never" changed it.. I only blow it out periodically with compressed air..... all the seals are perfect... especially on my 2010..."
Hmm....the silicone levels (which really aren't that high given the mileage) make more sense now... That's a pretty bad idea, both blowing compressed air over the filter and removing it in the first place. I'd suggest adding an air restriction gauge like one of these , which ever is appropriate for your intake system, and leaving it alone. Every time you open it up, you're adding contaminants to your engine, and blowing compressed air is just pushing contaminants into the pleats. Not good. Additionally, you aren't taking advantage of the improved filtration as your air filter gets "dirty". I'd give this a look.
Besides that, I seriously do think this could be a good application for a bypass filter and 100K OCI's or greater, sampling every 25K. Between consumption and top-offs when changing the bypass and full flow filter, TBN should still be within range almost indefinitely. As long as the oil stays in grade, you'd have nothing to worry about.
not to speak for him... but I would bet he blew the compressed air reverse of the pleats (blowing from the backside out...)
I know, I know... that compressed air is not filtered... but heck... we're not dealing with a hospital ER ward either!
Amsoil's newest line of air filters were constructed to be cleaned in this manner.
Now of course you are 100% correct if your just blowing compressed air the same direction as intake.
I know, I know... that compressed air is not filtered... but heck... we're not dealing with a hospital ER ward either!
Amsoil's newest line of air filters were constructed to be cleaned in this manner.
Now of course you are 100% correct if your just blowing compressed air the same direction as intake.
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Originally Posted By: blakeinspace
not to speak for him... but I would bet he blew the compressed air reverse of the pleats (blowing from the backside out...)
I know, I know... that compressed air is not filtered... but heck... we're not dealing with a hospital ER ward either!
Amsoil's newest line of air filters were constructed to be cleaned in this manner.
Now of course you are 100% correct if your just blowing compressed air the same direction as intake.
The problem is the blast from the air compressor damages the pleats/media, affecting the filter's ability to.... filter.
not to speak for him... but I would bet he blew the compressed air reverse of the pleats (blowing from the backside out...)
I know, I know... that compressed air is not filtered... but heck... we're not dealing with a hospital ER ward either!
Amsoil's newest line of air filters were constructed to be cleaned in this manner.
Now of course you are 100% correct if your just blowing compressed air the same direction as intake.
The problem is the blast from the air compressor damages the pleats/media, affecting the filter's ability to.... filter.
How would sucking the junk out with a shop vac and brush attackment work?
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Originally Posted By: demarpaint
How would sucking the junk out with a shop vac and brush attackment work?
The brush would likely damage the media too.
You just buy a new air filter.
How would sucking the junk out with a shop vac and brush attackment work?
The brush would likely damage the media too.
You just buy a new air filter.
Windstrings,
Bravo on the post above. A lot of truth there for sure. A warranty being as good as your lawyer is about dead on!
I wouldn't overly worry about the silicon. With only 6k on the clock when this oil was installed I would expect a considerable amount leaching from the gaskets. I would just install a new air filter at the beginning of each 25k oil change in the original spirit of keeping the maintanence simple. No worries here. This is more than acceptable and all things considered is quite amazing.
I have very much enjoyed this thread. The dipstick pics were a nice touch too.
I have a friend who I change oil for who has used a similar program of Amsoil at 25k+ ocis to take two GM cars to 200k without the slightest of issues. He doesn't even bother with analysis he just drives and saves a ton of time and money!
I salute your bravery and thank you for sharing with us. Carry on!
REDDOG
Bravo on the post above. A lot of truth there for sure. A warranty being as good as your lawyer is about dead on!
I wouldn't overly worry about the silicon. With only 6k on the clock when this oil was installed I would expect a considerable amount leaching from the gaskets. I would just install a new air filter at the beginning of each 25k oil change in the original spirit of keeping the maintanence simple. No worries here. This is more than acceptable and all things considered is quite amazing.
I have very much enjoyed this thread. The dipstick pics were a nice touch too.
I have a friend who I change oil for who has used a similar program of Amsoil at 25k+ ocis to take two GM cars to 200k without the slightest of issues. He doesn't even bother with analysis he just drives and saves a ton of time and money!
I salute your bravery and thank you for sharing with us. Carry on!
REDDOG
I can attest to the "interesting" people on PriusChat. Lets just say that I was banned from there a while back. They don't like differing opinions.
I wonder if I can get my employer on board with 25,000 mile OCIs. It would cut my change schedule to once a year.
I wonder if I can get my employer on board with 25,000 mile OCIs. It would cut my change schedule to once a year.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
O.K. Same question to you. Do you think it was wise to run a 25k oci in a new car with 6k on it?
I would not do it but obviously it looks like it is possible and the engine will not suffer so I am not going to tell someone else not to do it if they have UOAs that look great..
O.K. Same question to you. Do you think it was wise to run a 25k oci in a new car with 6k on it?
I would not do it but obviously it looks like it is possible and the engine will not suffer so I am not going to tell someone else not to do it if they have UOAs that look great..
Hi,
windstrings - Welcome to BITOG and thank you for allowing your data to be Posted - and for providing a backdrop to it after the event!
You Posted here for comments and suggestion - mine follow (I won't comment on single pass UOAs)
Perhaps you were as you say it "naive" in going so far so early - but for you in this instance it paid off! Great stuff!!
Long OCIs and "extended" OCIs (above recommendations) are not a new science and quite commonplace. On the way however people must learn to cope with UOAs showing rising WM numbers that may seem "alarming" - this is all quite normal. If you are fortunate enough to have some oil consumption on the way this will be a benefit in maintaining the "condition" of the lubricant - a prime consideration as lubricants tend to become more viscous with extended use
IME it is wise to be conservative in using a standard oil filter much beyond the maximum recommended by the Manufacturer - this is more to do with degradation of seals. valves and media rather than a capacity issue
IMO fitting a by-pass oil filter should be looked at from an economic viewpoint - for me in my operation they only became viable at year three of a four year vehicle life cycle. In your case I would seriously doubt its viability unless you will retain it at sale and can retrofit it
The lubricant performed credibly no doubt helped by the topup
Forming a "trend database" based on your operational information is a great way to get the best benefit from any expensive "boutique" lubricant. Many waste their money on such things for no benefit. In your case many other lubricants (especially those with Euro LL credentials) would do a credible job too but your choice has proven to be worthwhile
For me I would continue as you are, using standard filters, and I would monitor the lubricant's condition via UOA at one or two points to ensure that the eventual OCI was not at the expense of durability
Thanks for sharing your data
windstrings - Welcome to BITOG and thank you for allowing your data to be Posted - and for providing a backdrop to it after the event!
You Posted here for comments and suggestion - mine follow (I won't comment on single pass UOAs)
Perhaps you were as you say it "naive" in going so far so early - but for you in this instance it paid off! Great stuff!!
Long OCIs and "extended" OCIs (above recommendations) are not a new science and quite commonplace. On the way however people must learn to cope with UOAs showing rising WM numbers that may seem "alarming" - this is all quite normal. If you are fortunate enough to have some oil consumption on the way this will be a benefit in maintaining the "condition" of the lubricant - a prime consideration as lubricants tend to become more viscous with extended use
IME it is wise to be conservative in using a standard oil filter much beyond the maximum recommended by the Manufacturer - this is more to do with degradation of seals. valves and media rather than a capacity issue
IMO fitting a by-pass oil filter should be looked at from an economic viewpoint - for me in my operation they only became viable at year three of a four year vehicle life cycle. In your case I would seriously doubt its viability unless you will retain it at sale and can retrofit it
The lubricant performed credibly no doubt helped by the topup
Forming a "trend database" based on your operational information is a great way to get the best benefit from any expensive "boutique" lubricant. Many waste their money on such things for no benefit. In your case many other lubricants (especially those with Euro LL credentials) would do a credible job too but your choice has proven to be worthwhile
For me I would continue as you are, using standard filters, and I would monitor the lubricant's condition via UOA at one or two points to ensure that the eventual OCI was not at the expense of durability
Thanks for sharing your data
Great thread! The UOA rocks... but let's be honest, Toyota could void your warranty regardless of how many UOAs show the lubricant was in good shape. That's the honest truth, and I think we all know it. That being said, you have a nice pair hanging to go this far IMHO.... so kudos.. and I have no doubt it did no harm whatsoever to your Prius engine.
My suggestions:
1. Stick with your 25k or 1 year OCI.
2. Don't mess with your air filter if it was properly fitted when new and change it yearly.
3. Be happy and spend your savings on some beer and enjoy life....
I just spent the night at a buddies for poker and beer... 15 bucks up! It's a good night
My suggestions:
1. Stick with your 25k or 1 year OCI.
2. Don't mess with your air filter if it was properly fitted when new and change it yearly.
3. Be happy and spend your savings on some beer and enjoy life....
I just spent the night at a buddies for poker and beer... 15 bucks up! It's a good night
Wow that was a great oil run. And fz1 those wear metals aren't even bad. Were talk parts per million guy. And for a 25k run amazing
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Originally Posted By: Artem
^I wouldn't do it. All that metal (and increasing as break-in continues) floating around, rubbing on everything can't be that healthy.
This is your assumption based on UOA. Now first you must declare yourself as a 'UOA doesn't mean wear" ..or "Less is better ..more is BAD" camp.
..for to assert that it's "unhealthy" ..you can't be in both of those UOA camps as a switch hitter. I'm not saying that you are, but catch yourself the next time you see a UOA with lower wear metals and join in the cheering squad ...then discount the same numbers in another thread. Again, not saying that you do this, but it's a good self test for personal credibility and integrity's sake.
That said,
Have you EVER seen retention of the FF to the full factory limits shorten the life of an engine? How many UOA's have you seen where high metals trended down ..AND the person didn't do an exceptionally short dump on the FF? Now they may have done their 3500-5500 NORMAL FOR THEM OCI ..but no 300/600/900 mile dump.
I haven't. I'm sure millions have never given it another thought.
Now we can explore whether higher wear metals are really harmful ..or just more numerous. That is, suppose they're just a large number of HARMLESS (in terms of rational/sensible/sane SIGNIFICANCE) extremely small particles ..and not in any way indicative of wear or potential abrasive risk??
Do you know these things?
^I wouldn't do it. All that metal (and increasing as break-in continues) floating around, rubbing on everything can't be that healthy.
This is your assumption based on UOA. Now first you must declare yourself as a 'UOA doesn't mean wear" ..or "Less is better ..more is BAD" camp.
..for to assert that it's "unhealthy" ..you can't be in both of those UOA camps as a switch hitter. I'm not saying that you are, but catch yourself the next time you see a UOA with lower wear metals and join in the cheering squad ...then discount the same numbers in another thread. Again, not saying that you do this, but it's a good self test for personal credibility and integrity's sake.
That said,
Have you EVER seen retention of the FF to the full factory limits shorten the life of an engine? How many UOA's have you seen where high metals trended down ..AND the person didn't do an exceptionally short dump on the FF? Now they may have done their 3500-5500 NORMAL FOR THEM OCI ..but no 300/600/900 mile dump.
I haven't. I'm sure millions have never given it another thought.
Now we can explore whether higher wear metals are really harmful ..or just more numerous. That is, suppose they're just a large number of HARMLESS (in terms of rational/sensible/sane SIGNIFICANCE) extremely small particles ..and not in any way indicative of wear or potential abrasive risk??
Do you know these things?
Nice UOA! Nothing wrong anywhere for this interval.
Let's do it again!
FWIW, we no longer dump the factory fill early on our fleet trucks and our Silverado 5.3's have gone all the way out to as far as 14k miles on the OLM.
Nothing but long life and no problems here.
Let's do it again!
FWIW, we no longer dump the factory fill early on our fleet trucks and our Silverado 5.3's have gone all the way out to as far as 14k miles on the OLM.
Nothing but long life and no problems here.
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
IME it is wise to be conservative in using a standard oil filter much beyond the maximum recommended by the Manufacturer - this is more to do with degradation of seals. valves and media rather than a capacity issue
I was thinking about doing a long OCI with a purolator PL30001 filter in my 02 v8 tundra. The small toyota sized amsoil EA15K51 is only rated to have capacity for 15k.
However, I could fit a medium EAO filter or a large regular media filter to have the extra capacity. Right now I'm running a PL30001 during a cleaning cycle that may release alot.
It three times cheaper than a EAO filter and may trap more small particles so I plan on using it unless the seals would fail during a long OCI.
Hi,
IME it is wise to be conservative in using a standard oil filter much beyond the maximum recommended by the Manufacturer - this is more to do with degradation of seals. valves and media rather than a capacity issue
I was thinking about doing a long OCI with a purolator PL30001 filter in my 02 v8 tundra. The small toyota sized amsoil EA15K51 is only rated to have capacity for 15k.
However, I could fit a medium EAO filter or a large regular media filter to have the extra capacity. Right now I'm running a PL30001 during a cleaning cycle that may release alot.
It three times cheaper than a EAO filter and may trap more small particles so I plan on using it unless the seals would fail during a long OCI.
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I think many forgetting the fact that Prius engine is not an Otto cycle but Atkinson cycle, that produces less combustion heat and combustion byproducts oxidation.
Some Toyota engine are very hard towards oil is due to high temperature of the cylinder head area driven by the water jacket design and engine power optimization tuning.
If you remember old Toyota K engine (4K/5K), all their engine are very easy to oil due to low power engine design, the oil will look like new even you have driven for 5k km.
Some Toyota engine are very hard towards oil is due to high temperature of the cylinder head area driven by the water jacket design and engine power optimization tuning.
If you remember old Toyota K engine (4K/5K), all their engine are very easy to oil due to low power engine design, the oil will look like new even you have driven for 5k km.
Originally Posted By: nthach
And I would change the filter every 5K.
I would do it that Frequently. That defeats the purpose of extended OCI's if you're still getting under the car to do oil filter changes.
I'd do it half way at say... 12k just to help clean the oil better.
And I would change the filter every 5K.
I would do it that Frequently. That defeats the purpose of extended OCI's if you're still getting under the car to do oil filter changes.
I'd do it half way at say... 12k just to help clean the oil better.
Great UOA. I wonder if there is room for a nice big oil filter so you can keep on driving with crazy high change intervals.
This engine is begging for a motorguard, stilko, or frantz installation and 100k OCI's.
Atkinson cycle is one thing. This engine also puts out low HP numbers for its size. 1.8L and about ~100hp. I doubt that the engine can stress oil too much even if it tried.
Another option is to pay for the TAN so you can compare it to TBN. Or, pick another lab for some oxidation/nitration numbers.
I hate the Prius. So, not changing the oil is exactly what I would do.
This engine is begging for a motorguard, stilko, or frantz installation and 100k OCI's.
Atkinson cycle is one thing. This engine also puts out low HP numbers for its size. 1.8L and about ~100hp. I doubt that the engine can stress oil too much even if it tried.
Another option is to pay for the TAN so you can compare it to TBN. Or, pick another lab for some oxidation/nitration numbers.
I hate the Prius. So, not changing the oil is exactly what I would do.
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