25,000mi ~running Amsoil SSO 0w-30 in a 2010 Prius
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Originally Posted By: FZ1
O.K. Same question to you. Do you think it was wise to run a 25k oci in a new car with 6k on it?
If it were my vehicle I would not run that long an OCI especially on a new engine like that, and still under warranty. However the guy runs a fleet of cars and possibly trades them in frequently and doesn't really care as much as most of us here do. He certainly isn't concerned with the warranty, but according to the UOA he did fine. To each his own, I tend to be more cautious than most.
O.K. Same question to you. Do you think it was wise to run a 25k oci in a new car with 6k on it?
If it were my vehicle I would not run that long an OCI especially on a new engine like that, and still under warranty. However the guy runs a fleet of cars and possibly trades them in frequently and doesn't really care as much as most of us here do. He certainly isn't concerned with the warranty, but according to the UOA he did fine. To each his own, I tend to be more cautious than most.
You protect the $25,000 asset with a garage. You protect the $3,000 engine in your $25,000 asset with oil.
I wouldnt have the nuts to run the second fill that long. But accordoing to the facts, it did okay. So who am I to argue?
I wouldnt have the nuts to run the second fill that long. But accordoing to the facts, it did okay. So who am I to argue?
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
The best measure for this (or any) type of vehicle is the amount of fuel consumed. It can't hide usage in regen braking or coasting when the engine is off.
A simple average mpg should give you some reasonable reference.
I wonder what Amsoil would consider (oil time) for these cars in regards to warranty of the oil?
The best measure for this (or any) type of vehicle is the amount of fuel consumed. It can't hide usage in regen braking or coasting when the engine is off.
A simple average mpg should give you some reasonable reference.
I wonder what Amsoil would consider (oil time) for these cars in regards to warranty of the oil?
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Different Strokes. Yes,the oil performed flawlessly....but why run it so far with all the additional break in contaminants? I could care less about "getting value" out of my oil change. I am preserving a 25,000 asset,so,I am going to select a good quality synthetic oil,good quality filters,and change it every 6 months,Fall and Spring.......even if I've only 4500 miles on it.
If the oil is within limits on wear metals etc, shows normal fuel dilution, insoluables are normal and has good nitration and oxidation and tbn retention your throwing hard earned dollars out the door. Take the same engine service it your way and the extended OCI way and you would be way behind in time and dollars.
Different Strokes. Yes,the oil performed flawlessly....but why run it so far with all the additional break in contaminants? I could care less about "getting value" out of my oil change. I am preserving a 25,000 asset,so,I am going to select a good quality synthetic oil,good quality filters,and change it every 6 months,Fall and Spring.......even if I've only 4500 miles on it.
If the oil is within limits on wear metals etc, shows normal fuel dilution, insoluables are normal and has good nitration and oxidation and tbn retention your throwing hard earned dollars out the door. Take the same engine service it your way and the extended OCI way and you would be way behind in time and dollars.
Originally Posted By: Artem
^are you talking about the 1 year or X amount of miles rule?
The OCI of this UOA is 25K-to35K a year so it would be close either way, however I am interested in the mileage way and Amsoils thoughts on this!
^are you talking about the 1 year or X amount of miles rule?
The OCI of this UOA is 25K-to35K a year so it would be close either way, however I am interested in the mileage way and Amsoils thoughts on this!
What ever the time and miles, the oil held up for the interval. Isn't that what matters.
No,man. The guy threw away his Toyota warranty on $100,000 of hybrid automobiles for what? To save a few bucks on warranty compliance intervals? Not to mention all the additional break in contaminants circulating for 25k. No,man. This was a Bad Call,no matter how you slice it. If the guy really was genetically predisposed to go 25k between changes,then he should have waited till the warrany was expired and the wear metals/contaminants were down.
I don't see what the fack is the big deal with warranty coverage in this scenario?
If there's a recall on the car (some other component) this long OCIs dont effect it, so who cares what OCI he follows.
I do agree that doing such a long OCI in a new car isn't the best idea in the world but regardless, he'll get 200k+ out of the car without issues (as per the UOA posted)
so my question is... Who gives a [censored] about the warranty?!
If there's a recall on the car (some other component) this long OCIs dont effect it, so who cares what OCI he follows.
I do agree that doing such a long OCI in a new car isn't the best idea in the world but regardless, he'll get 200k+ out of the car without issues (as per the UOA posted)
so my question is... Who gives a [censored] about the warranty?!
Originally Posted By: FZ1
No,man. The guy threw away his Toyota warranty on $100,000 of hybrid automobiles for what? To save a few bucks on warranty compliance intervals? Not to mention all the additional break in contaminants circulating for 25k. No,man. This was a Bad Call,no matter how you slice it. If the guy really was genetically predisposed to go 25k between changes,then he should have waited till the warrany was expired and the wear metals/contaminants were down.
What are you talking about? "The guy threw away his Toyota warranty". You know that you are wrong, don't you?
You just say stuff for some yet undetermined reasons. I'll ask you - why was this a "bad call"? Because of your faulty judgment and myopic views?? Oh don't bother, same old junk with no proof.
I agree with the other guys. You jump into long OCI threads and try to stir up unwarranted fear. Just plain weird.
No,man. The guy threw away his Toyota warranty on $100,000 of hybrid automobiles for what? To save a few bucks on warranty compliance intervals? Not to mention all the additional break in contaminants circulating for 25k. No,man. This was a Bad Call,no matter how you slice it. If the guy really was genetically predisposed to go 25k between changes,then he should have waited till the warrany was expired and the wear metals/contaminants were down.
What are you talking about? "The guy threw away his Toyota warranty". You know that you are wrong, don't you?
You just say stuff for some yet undetermined reasons. I'll ask you - why was this a "bad call"? Because of your faulty judgment and myopic views?? Oh don't bother, same old junk with no proof.
I agree with the other guys. You jump into long OCI threads and try to stir up unwarranted fear. Just plain weird.
Originally Posted By: Artem
^I wouldn't do it. All that metal (and increasing as break-in continues) floating around, rubbing on everything can't be that healthy.
The metal is not excessive in any way.
^I wouldn't do it. All that metal (and increasing as break-in continues) floating around, rubbing on everything can't be that healthy.
The metal is not excessive in any way.
Hi,
Pablo - I find hybrid OCIs and the electic/petrol component use factors of great interest. I saw Prius Cabs in every country I've been to in the last couple of years
When developing stop/start reefer units for trucks in the early 1980s both ThermoKing in the US and I privately in OZ were amazed at the variability of low power/high power/on/off ratios - and of the large reductions in fuel consumption of course (sorry to say Gary)
It seems to me that the Prius petrol engine and its lubricant has an easy ride. It is IC engine idling that consumes a lot of fuel - the Prius engine does not idle (much, if at all AIUI) yet the Prius petrol engine does a lot of the accellerating. Coasting seems to be an petrol engine off situation in most cases too
Somebody somewhere will have a lot of data on this - I have virtually none
Pablo - I find hybrid OCIs and the electic/petrol component use factors of great interest. I saw Prius Cabs in every country I've been to in the last couple of years
When developing stop/start reefer units for trucks in the early 1980s both ThermoKing in the US and I privately in OZ were amazed at the variability of low power/high power/on/off ratios - and of the large reductions in fuel consumption of course (sorry to say Gary)
It seems to me that the Prius petrol engine and its lubricant has an easy ride. It is IC engine idling that consumes a lot of fuel - the Prius engine does not idle (much, if at all AIUI) yet the Prius petrol engine does a lot of the accellerating. Coasting seems to be an petrol engine off situation in most cases too
Somebody somewhere will have a lot of data on this - I have virtually none
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Pablo - I find hybrid OCIs and the electic/petrol component use factors of great interest. I saw Prius Cabs in every country I've been to in the last couple of years.....
It seems to me that the Prius petrol engine and its lubricant has an easy ride.
I find it really interesting as well, and I don't know why since I don't own one, or even know anyone who owns one. If they came out with a Prius Wagon I'd be a lot more interested...
Anyway, it seems that all of the Prius' show easy wear on the oil, regardless of which oil used. In looking at this UOA my first thoughts were "this could be a great application for a bypass filter and SSO. Dump the factory fill at 10K and then forget about changing the oil forever! Just change the filters, top off a little and send a sample for test every 50K".
I wonder what FZ1 would think of that oil change strategy??
Hi,
Pablo - I find hybrid OCIs and the electic/petrol component use factors of great interest. I saw Prius Cabs in every country I've been to in the last couple of years.....
It seems to me that the Prius petrol engine and its lubricant has an easy ride.
I find it really interesting as well, and I don't know why since I don't own one, or even know anyone who owns one. If they came out with a Prius Wagon I'd be a lot more interested...
Anyway, it seems that all of the Prius' show easy wear on the oil, regardless of which oil used. In looking at this UOA my first thoughts were "this could be a great application for a bypass filter and SSO. Dump the factory fill at 10K and then forget about changing the oil forever! Just change the filters, top off a little and send a sample for test every 50K".
I wonder what FZ1 would think of that oil change strategy??
Hi,
JOD - Sealed lubrication systems are already in existance
So are electric oil pumps (lubrication system) controlled by the engine's ECM - Porsche introduced them over a year ago. These have significant advantages in hybrid engine applications
Sealed lubrication system development has produced a "cartridge" system for instance that includes a cleanable centrifuge filter with excellent efficiency at around 1micron
Lubricants used typically need to have known characteristics so that its condition can be monitored electronically - engine condition (certain wearing components with known metallurgy) can be monitored the same way too. The importance of Approved lubricants become obvious in these cases
Sadly this in now OT - sorry
JOD - Sealed lubrication systems are already in existance
So are electric oil pumps (lubrication system) controlled by the engine's ECM - Porsche introduced them over a year ago. These have significant advantages in hybrid engine applications
Sealed lubrication system development has produced a "cartridge" system for instance that includes a cleanable centrifuge filter with excellent efficiency at around 1micron
Lubricants used typically need to have known characteristics so that its condition can be monitored electronically - engine condition (certain wearing components with known metallurgy) can be monitored the same way too. The importance of Approved lubricants become obvious in these cases
Sadly this in now OT - sorry
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Sadly this in now OT - sorry
bah!, no worries. this thread has lots of different turns, and they all deal with oil... close enough for me.
FZ1--- you realize you are 100% flat incorrect on the warranty voided claim, right? Just in case you did not catch that... you are wrong. You're opinion on OCI's is perfectly acceptable, but spouting misinformation about mileage or drain intervals is not productive.
You think Toyota would void a warranty if I ran Prestone coolant?... Allsup's gas? Water instead of blue bug wash? ooo... my wipers are Bosch Icons or my headlights are Silverstars... oh my... the car may as well fall apart by running Yoke's instead of Bridges...
There's plenty of information on what it takes to void a warranty, but I doubt that posting it would make a difference for you.
Sadly this in now OT - sorry
bah!, no worries. this thread has lots of different turns, and they all deal with oil... close enough for me.
FZ1--- you realize you are 100% flat incorrect on the warranty voided claim, right? Just in case you did not catch that... you are wrong. You're opinion on OCI's is perfectly acceptable, but spouting misinformation about mileage or drain intervals is not productive.
You think Toyota would void a warranty if I ran Prestone coolant?... Allsup's gas? Water instead of blue bug wash? ooo... my wipers are Bosch Icons or my headlights are Silverstars... oh my... the car may as well fall apart by running Yoke's instead of Bridges...
There's plenty of information on what it takes to void a warranty, but I doubt that posting it would make a difference for you.
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Originally Posted By: BeanCounter
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
BeanCounter - You made the statement it is surely over to you to "back it up". I happen to believe that you won't be able to!
You also said this:
"Feel free to let me know which testing authority you approve of too, as I'd be entertained to find out whose testing is acceptable and whose isn't."
Very clearly I defer to the ACEA protocols and those of the Major Maunufacter's published Approval and Listing requirements. At a stretch even the official API Certification processes will do!!
I'm sorry there are tests out there that you don't approve of. Some of us do approve of them accordingly. I don't discount the fact that if these tests were so blasphemous, other sources and manufacturers on your "industry approved" list would have argued the findings just a bit.
And you don't want a biased source, yet you're using major manufacturers' "approved oil" lists as evidence.
That's a good one, Doug!
You must realize that Doug has DONE testing for major manufacturers. This includes automotive and lubricant manufacturers. Many of these have involved extended drain testing over millions of Km's with extended drains in the 100,000Km range in same cases.
He is no stranger to the topic being discussed, nor extended drains.
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
BeanCounter - You made the statement it is surely over to you to "back it up". I happen to believe that you won't be able to!
You also said this:
"Feel free to let me know which testing authority you approve of too, as I'd be entertained to find out whose testing is acceptable and whose isn't."
Very clearly I defer to the ACEA protocols and those of the Major Maunufacter's published Approval and Listing requirements. At a stretch even the official API Certification processes will do!!
I'm sorry there are tests out there that you don't approve of. Some of us do approve of them accordingly. I don't discount the fact that if these tests were so blasphemous, other sources and manufacturers on your "industry approved" list would have argued the findings just a bit.
And you don't want a biased source, yet you're using major manufacturers' "approved oil" lists as evidence.
That's a good one, Doug!
You must realize that Doug has DONE testing for major manufacturers. This includes automotive and lubricant manufacturers. Many of these have involved extended drain testing over millions of Km's with extended drains in the 100,000Km range in same cases.
He is no stranger to the topic being discussed, nor extended drains.
Originally Posted By: blakeinspace
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Sadly this in now OT - sorry
bah!, no worries. this thread has lots of different turns, and they all deal with oil... close enough for me.
FZ1--- you realize you are 100% flat incorrect on the warranty voided claim, right? Just in case you did not catch that... you are wrong. You're opinion on OCI's is perfectly acceptable, but spouting misinformation about mileage or drain intervals is not productive.
You think Toyota would void a warranty if I ran Prestone coolant?... Allsup's gas? Water instead of blue bug wash? ooo... my wipers are Bosch Icons or my headlights are Silverstars... oh my... the car may as well fall apart by running Yoke's instead of Bridges...
There's plenty of information on what it takes to void a warranty, but I doubt that posting it would make a difference for you.
And that is why he should be banned. Known trollers are kicked on just about every other forum I know.
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Sadly this in now OT - sorry
bah!, no worries. this thread has lots of different turns, and they all deal with oil... close enough for me.
FZ1--- you realize you are 100% flat incorrect on the warranty voided claim, right? Just in case you did not catch that... you are wrong. You're opinion on OCI's is perfectly acceptable, but spouting misinformation about mileage or drain intervals is not productive.
You think Toyota would void a warranty if I ran Prestone coolant?... Allsup's gas? Water instead of blue bug wash? ooo... my wipers are Bosch Icons or my headlights are Silverstars... oh my... the car may as well fall apart by running Yoke's instead of Bridges...
There's plenty of information on what it takes to void a warranty, but I doubt that posting it would make a difference for you.
And that is why he should be banned. Known trollers are kicked on just about every other forum I know.
Wow!... this has stirred quite a hornets nest just like it did on priuschat. Funny how people protect paradigms of thought as if its their own identity at stake... "my dad is stronger than your dad"
Anyway, I have included the original report just to show its not just numbers put on a page.
As discussed in detail on the other forum, warranties are "suggestions" based on the weakest link. Some drive on hot dusty dirt roads and others never leave the pavement.
Aside from that, I was possibly naive in jumping to 25K so quickly... While I know this is not an indicator, I kept looking at my oil stick and the oil looked great!
In all fairness, yes a prius does not have the engine engaged for most of the coasting and braking time other than to be "revolving" on electric power expecting a quick recovery should the driver step on the gas again "helps make the experience seamless and is more efficient".
Only after the computer thinks the driver is settled does it actually stop the engine completely... this is usually at red lights etc.
Also, during the duration of 25K... there was some consumptive use..... I added 1/2qt twice to keep the level full, so that would tend to "freshen" the oil numbers too.
Its speculation to assume that would have been needed regardless of the oil used for that long of a duration, or whether it was due to the 0-30W being a tad thinner than recommended.
Living in texas with moderately hot temperatures.. I could have gotten a tad thin but according to the report.. not metals we high etc.
As far as silicon levels.. it was discussed as to whether the stock factory air filter was sufficient verses a leak "has a rubber seal all around" verses the sheer volume of air pulled in over a 25K mile run.
We do get lots of windy days and I'm sure lots of "silicon" is in the air.
Since there aren't too many other 25K reports out there to compare to.... I would venture to say that almost any report would be high due to the run time involved.
I guess the next question would be.. "does that silicon hurt and cause damage and if so is there a way to remove it or prevent it from reaching such levels?"
Maybe you guys can answer... this may be the weak link limiting long run times in my area.
Another factor that made me feel warm and fuzzy about trying such a long trial period was that the prius computer is pretty accurate at judging gas mileage and it never suffered.
In the past with other cars, If I ran the oil too long, I would get erratic idles and really [censored] gas mileage along with filthy looking oil.
None of which occurred with this 25K run.
I am new to synthetic, but as with most anything else I buy.. I did lots of research and tried to weed out the famous from the true and ended up with Amsoil SSO.
I have discovered that what sells is hype and image.
The government and politicians know it and so do crafty businessmen.
The "perception" of reality is often much more impacting than the truth because the masses don't follow the truth but rather the image and are easily led astray.
Amsoil just seems like a solid "no brag" company that seemed to mean what they say and say what they mean with a warranty behind it.
While I realize warranties are only as good as your lawyer in court, I just can't understand the logic in buying very expensive oil and tossing it before its half done with its life.... if you like lots of oil changes, might as well go with the cheapest.. it works too!
But if your like me and hate to mess with it and want a clean once a year fix, I think I've found the solution.
While its not in the comfort zone of others, it is what it is..... maybe I have too much faith.....or maybe I'm stupid.. but at least the oil report backs me and and even suggested I go longer next time!
Here are some pics...
Oil at 23K on the dipstick.
New Oil
25k OIL REPORT
Anyway, I have included the original report just to show its not just numbers put on a page.
As discussed in detail on the other forum, warranties are "suggestions" based on the weakest link. Some drive on hot dusty dirt roads and others never leave the pavement.
Aside from that, I was possibly naive in jumping to 25K so quickly... While I know this is not an indicator, I kept looking at my oil stick and the oil looked great!
In all fairness, yes a prius does not have the engine engaged for most of the coasting and braking time other than to be "revolving" on electric power expecting a quick recovery should the driver step on the gas again "helps make the experience seamless and is more efficient".
Only after the computer thinks the driver is settled does it actually stop the engine completely... this is usually at red lights etc.
Also, during the duration of 25K... there was some consumptive use..... I added 1/2qt twice to keep the level full, so that would tend to "freshen" the oil numbers too.
Its speculation to assume that would have been needed regardless of the oil used for that long of a duration, or whether it was due to the 0-30W being a tad thinner than recommended.
Living in texas with moderately hot temperatures.. I could have gotten a tad thin but according to the report.. not metals we high etc.
As far as silicon levels.. it was discussed as to whether the stock factory air filter was sufficient verses a leak "has a rubber seal all around" verses the sheer volume of air pulled in over a 25K mile run.
We do get lots of windy days and I'm sure lots of "silicon" is in the air.
Since there aren't too many other 25K reports out there to compare to.... I would venture to say that almost any report would be high due to the run time involved.
I guess the next question would be.. "does that silicon hurt and cause damage and if so is there a way to remove it or prevent it from reaching such levels?"
Maybe you guys can answer... this may be the weak link limiting long run times in my area.
Another factor that made me feel warm and fuzzy about trying such a long trial period was that the prius computer is pretty accurate at judging gas mileage and it never suffered.
In the past with other cars, If I ran the oil too long, I would get erratic idles and really [censored] gas mileage along with filthy looking oil.
None of which occurred with this 25K run.
I am new to synthetic, but as with most anything else I buy.. I did lots of research and tried to weed out the famous from the true and ended up with Amsoil SSO.
I have discovered that what sells is hype and image.
The government and politicians know it and so do crafty businessmen.
The "perception" of reality is often much more impacting than the truth because the masses don't follow the truth but rather the image and are easily led astray.
Amsoil just seems like a solid "no brag" company that seemed to mean what they say and say what they mean with a warranty behind it.
While I realize warranties are only as good as your lawyer in court, I just can't understand the logic in buying very expensive oil and tossing it before its half done with its life.... if you like lots of oil changes, might as well go with the cheapest.. it works too!
But if your like me and hate to mess with it and want a clean once a year fix, I think I've found the solution.
While its not in the comfort zone of others, it is what it is..... maybe I have too much faith.....or maybe I'm stupid.. but at least the oil report backs me and and even suggested I go longer next time!
Here are some pics...
Oil at 23K on the dipstick.
New Oil
25k OIL REPORT
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