I am not saying Terry is being paid directly to promote RLI products. I think that is abundantly clear. However, please go back an read some of the maestro's posts. I think he crosses the line. Others don't. I'm done talking about it.
RLI Bio-Synthetc 0W-20
- Thread starter mfisher1967
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22,591 in total posts as my typing this reply.
Every Amsoil thread and debate/question responded to very quickly.
Also quick to insert link to Amsoil product being discussed with your proper dealer number inserted in URL.
Nothing wrong with any of the above.
Bash another member of BITOG who is also a site sponsor, but suddenly done talking about it, after 22k plus posts?
Every Amsoil thread and debate/question responded to very quickly.
Also quick to insert link to Amsoil product being discussed with your proper dealer number inserted in URL.
Nothing wrong with any of the above.
Bash another member of BITOG who is also a site sponsor, but suddenly done talking about it, after 22k plus posts?
Easy there laidies...cant we all just get along.
I didn't bash, and yes as I stated.
Fuel power is FP60 from lube control. Its an additive you add to your gas tank. Pretty good stuff but i get better results with Lucas UCL.
Back on topic, and this is directed to Terry:
Is the additive package and SM level in this particular formulation, or does it have a little more P and Zn than that certification allots for?
Is the additive package and SM level in this particular formulation, or does it have a little more P and Zn than that certification allots for?
Once again, BITOG'ers taking marbles from the playground and leaving to post no more! Say it ain't so.
Setting things straight:
I am an INDEPENDENT consulting Tribologist and Analyst. I DON'T HAVE to explain anything here at BITOG or in public.
I chose too however, because I care about helping others and promoting my business simultaneously.
In the very recent past I have worked for RI_RS4 on the Audi engine issues ( he pays PROFESSIONAL rates of $250/hr.) By contrast Pablo has never even purchased a $50 consumer level test from Dyson Analysis so I do not know where you find traction Cf
by your comments. I have MANY Amsoil Dealers who are Dyson Customers and they either pay for consult or buy oil analysis kits and their business's do not suffer. Pablo I appreciate that you send "MANY" of your customers to me and your kind support for my business. What does that mean to me in revenue ?, I am not sure.
I am in business to support my family, this is not a hobby for me like the majority of you reading this.
I DO NOW consult for RLI and Garmiers since they finally accepted Dyson Analysis working for them after years of being afraid of me and my former Pro racing sponsorship by a oil company of my same last name. Funny, I am being accused of pumping RLI for cash when my whole business is predicated on unbiased science of how a lube performs in the real world application.
I worked for Shell last year on Platinum,Auto-RX recent years, LCD,Odis Beaver of LC, USDA,Specialty Formulations ( a company few here supported and has closed for the foreseeable future, Pro Fuzion oil company of Singapore, Many Amsoil dealers who pay, other oil companies I cannot list, Car makers I cannot list specifically, racing entities I cannot list specifically, Industrial companies I cannot list specifically,Law firms and insurance companies I cannot list specifically, and guess what they all pay me for the services.
Now I find a new more oxidatively stable BIOSYN oil using BIO SOURCED formulas and one of my professional customers chooses to post that info here, I link that company on my own website and I am "bought out", give me a break. I found and assisted in fine tuning a formula for a customer, he shares it here and it does reduce wear by factors of up to 5 times and it is suspect????
To date I am still independent as no one has stepped up to buy me out!
I suppose it looks like I am pumping RLI BIOSYN much like Pablo and others thought I was pumping Auto-RX, LC/FP, Conoco Phillips oils, Redline, M1, Schaeffer, Platinum, Shell fuels, blah blah blah.
You know folks.... I just share what I can here. I am tiring of the consumer level work and BITOG is becoming the worst consumer level work because it endangers my core business. I have recently taken steps to contain that with our new Audio interpretations for the consumer customer.
So this is not just directed at Pablo or anyone who would question me( please do I have no axe or product to promote except my core oil analysis interpretation business!). I'd say my track record is a good one.
Pablo you questioned my recommending RL, LC, etc. and then seeing lower than stellar results from BITOG posted data; well guess what?.... chemistries, raw materials, and formulations change. Cars change, fuels change, the product that worked last year well may be sucking wind today. The only reason you have known most of that is that DYSON ANALYSIS shared it here or on NORIA etc. for nearly 10 years.
Add the fact that the data you see at BITOG is NOT ALWAYS COMPLETE OR COMPREHENSIVE because it either can't be shared or no one paid for it to be shared.
I am still in the game , marbles on the table.
Pablo and others, to date I have not been paid one thin dime for working for RLI yet but I hope too soon. Kids need shoes for school starting here!
Terry
Setting things straight:
I am an INDEPENDENT consulting Tribologist and Analyst. I DON'T HAVE to explain anything here at BITOG or in public.
I chose too however, because I care about helping others and promoting my business simultaneously.
In the very recent past I have worked for RI_RS4 on the Audi engine issues ( he pays PROFESSIONAL rates of $250/hr.) By contrast Pablo has never even purchased a $50 consumer level test from Dyson Analysis so I do not know where you find traction Cf
I am in business to support my family, this is not a hobby for me like the majority of you reading this.
I DO NOW consult for RLI and Garmiers since they finally accepted Dyson Analysis working for them after years of being afraid of me and my former Pro racing sponsorship by a oil company of my same last name. Funny, I am being accused of pumping RLI for cash when my whole business is predicated on unbiased science of how a lube performs in the real world application.
I worked for Shell last year on Platinum,Auto-RX recent years, LCD,Odis Beaver of LC, USDA,Specialty Formulations ( a company few here supported and has closed for the foreseeable future, Pro Fuzion oil company of Singapore, Many Amsoil dealers who pay, other oil companies I cannot list, Car makers I cannot list specifically, racing entities I cannot list specifically, Industrial companies I cannot list specifically,Law firms and insurance companies I cannot list specifically, and guess what they all pay me for the services.
Now I find a new more oxidatively stable BIOSYN oil using BIO SOURCED formulas and one of my professional customers chooses to post that info here, I link that company on my own website and I am "bought out", give me a break. I found and assisted in fine tuning a formula for a customer, he shares it here and it does reduce wear by factors of up to 5 times and it is suspect????
To date I am still independent as no one has stepped up to buy me out!
I suppose it looks like I am pumping RLI BIOSYN much like Pablo and others thought I was pumping Auto-RX, LC/FP, Conoco Phillips oils, Redline, M1, Schaeffer, Platinum, Shell fuels, blah blah blah.
You know folks.... I just share what I can here. I am tiring of the consumer level work and BITOG is becoming the worst consumer level work because it endangers my core business. I have recently taken steps to contain that with our new Audio interpretations for the consumer customer.
So this is not just directed at Pablo or anyone who would question me( please do I have no axe or product to promote except my core oil analysis interpretation business!). I'd say my track record is a good one.
Pablo you questioned my recommending RL, LC, etc. and then seeing lower than stellar results from BITOG posted data; well guess what?.... chemistries, raw materials, and formulations change. Cars change, fuels change, the product that worked last year well may be sucking wind today. The only reason you have known most of that is that DYSON ANALYSIS shared it here or on NORIA etc. for nearly 10 years.
Add the fact that the data you see at BITOG is NOT ALWAYS COMPLETE OR COMPREHENSIVE because it either can't be shared or no one paid for it to be shared.
I am still in the game , marbles on the table.
Pablo and others, to date I have not been paid one thin dime for working for RLI yet but I hope too soon. Kids need shoes for school starting here!
Terry
API specs: As far as I can tell from testing todate RLI formulates PCMO oils to meet current specs as far as I can tell. Their formulas use a patented add pack that is different than any other on the market so BIO sourced HOBS is not the only strength of the formulas.
What has API done for you lately anyway ?
Consider what the acronym represents. I say its time to get OFF the foreign petroleum tit anyway.
Pablo as a fellow Brother in ---- I am NO ----.
I don't know anyone else in the industry that is INDEPENDENT and can take disparate data and make it mean something that we can tune from for the automobile as well as I can but I am still looking.
----, NO WAY.
Just a humble analyst.
What has API done for you lately anyway ?
Consider what the acronym represents. I say its time to get OFF the foreign petroleum tit anyway.
Pablo as a fellow Brother in ---- I am NO ----.
I don't know anyone else in the industry that is INDEPENDENT and can take disparate data and make it mean something that we can tune from for the automobile as well as I can but I am still looking.
----, NO WAY.
Just a humble analyst.
One other note and I'll roll over ( was a long trip to Zurich and back), RI_RS4 is a highly trained engineer and a principal in a very solid firm. His willingness to list data here was out of kindness, he didn't even know what BIOSYN or RLI was. I HONESTLY just formulated the best we could for his application because NOTHING off the shelf was getting it done.
The Man is a gem of a customer and would be using Specialty Formulations if Mola was still on line! Oops I am pumping SF now.....
The Man is a gem of a customer and would be using Specialty Formulations if Mola was still on line! Oops I am pumping SF now.....
Ummmm.... besides cause me to use Maxima cycle rated oils in my automotive engines due to lack of additive chemistry in the current formulations...NOTHING!
Sounds like a winning formulation that I need to use once again with confidence this time, in fact, I might have to change my fickle and ever changing brand ways...maybe!
Sounds like a winning formulation that I need to use once again with confidence this time, in fact, I might have to change my fickle and ever changing brand ways...maybe!
i dont want to get in trouble with the bitog admins so ill keep this light and to the point.
if dyson is getting paid by RLI for testing, consultation, whatever then what dyson has to say about RLI and its products has got to be suspect and taken with a grain of salt. its that simple guys.
if dyson is getting paid by RLI for testing, consultation, whatever then what dyson has to say about RLI and its products has got to be suspect and taken with a grain of salt. its that simple guys.
Quote:
Master, I appreciate your comment and please do what you feel comfortable with. However you had better add lots of salt to reading my comments online for the last 10 years. I work or have worked for every major brand you might consider using.
Now I know why UOAs sent to you always have suspicious amounts of Na listed.
MolaKule
Staff member
I have seen many links on Terry's site and our's used to be one of them until we went silent, and I did not own Terry; he was one of our best formulation analysts. I see Blackstone as a link as well but I don't think Blackstone owns Terry. Terry chooses to remain independent so that none of his analysis can be called biased. When Terry gets excited about a product, he likes to tell people about it.
Pablo, I like you too man and I hope this is not a case of "not invented here." Amsoil has good products and who knows, maybe they are already working on biosyns.
SF was formulating bio-oils as well, and I hold no animosities toward RLI, in fact I hope they succeed big-time. I do not know of nor have met any of the people in RLI but I am glad to see them introducing biosyns and so far, they look good.
There is enough room for us all and competition is a hallmark and core of good capitalism.
If RLI proves itself, they will come, just as Amsoil, Redline, RP, and others have done.
Pablo, I like you too man and I hope this is not a case of "not invented here." Amsoil has good products and who knows, maybe they are already working on biosyns.
SF was formulating bio-oils as well, and I hold no animosities toward RLI, in fact I hope they succeed big-time. I do not know of nor have met any of the people in RLI but I am glad to see them introducing biosyns and so far, they look good.
There is enough room for us all and competition is a hallmark and core of good capitalism.
If RLI proves itself, they will come, just as Amsoil, Redline, RP, and others have done.
Pablo, you have used several innuendos in your posting. IF you won't admit to them that's fine. I thought we had already cleared up my relationship to RLI a month ago. You are the one who brought it up yet again, by referring to some of RLI's marketing, which changes nothing of what I said previously. That offends me, since it again raises the specter of non-objectivity on my part. I don't take kindly to that.
Then you question RLI oil not being API approved for the 0W-20 weight. That is a true statement. However, the unstated implication is that Amsoil's 0W-20 offering is, which is just not true. According to the API website Amsoil does not have an API certified 0W-20 oil. The following are the only oils certified,as of August 8, 2008:
Brand Name SAE Viscosity Grade ILSAC Oil Specification Current ExpirationDate
XL 10W-30 GF-4 August 8, 2008
XL 5W-20 GF-4 August 8, 2008
XL 5W-30 GF-4 August 8, 2008
Based on your own criteria, your 0W-20 is not API listed.
As for the ingredients in RLI products, I'm sure that they will release the ingredient list as soon as any other oil formulator in the world, which is probably close to never. And as for suppliers of PAO would you care to divulge Amsoil's suppliers over time?
I'll be quite upfront. I think many grades of Amsoil are good products. However, I also think that Amsoil product marketing is purposely deceptive, often referring to standards that require specific approvals with the words "recommend for". Realistically you cannot recommend an oil for a proprietary specification, such as VW/Audi 502.00, without access to the specification. And you cannot possibly have legal access to the specification without going through the approval process.
I realize Amsoil is a small company with limited resources and does not want to budget for, or afford the cost of specific manufacturer's approvals. Certainly many other excellent oil formulators are in the same boat.
As for who pays Terry? I can answer one part of that. My part. I have paid Terry for all research and testing that he has done on my behalf in the development of the RLI Biosyn 5W-40 product. Unlike many people, I do not accept free products, that way I am beholden to no one, and am free to publish, or not, any results that I care to.
The questions you ask about impartiality are good questions. Sometimes I find it is best to ask these questions off line, and then if the answers are not satisfactory make the questions public. I find more often than not that when pointed questions are asked in a public forum, there is usually another hidden agenda.
Then you question RLI oil not being API approved for the 0W-20 weight. That is a true statement. However, the unstated implication is that Amsoil's 0W-20 offering is, which is just not true. According to the API website Amsoil does not have an API certified 0W-20 oil. The following are the only oils certified,as of August 8, 2008:
Brand Name SAE Viscosity Grade ILSAC Oil Specification Current ExpirationDate
XL 10W-30 GF-4 August 8, 2008
XL 5W-20 GF-4 August 8, 2008
XL 5W-30 GF-4 August 8, 2008
Based on your own criteria, your 0W-20 is not API listed.
As for the ingredients in RLI products, I'm sure that they will release the ingredient list as soon as any other oil formulator in the world, which is probably close to never. And as for suppliers of PAO would you care to divulge Amsoil's suppliers over time?
I'll be quite upfront. I think many grades of Amsoil are good products. However, I also think that Amsoil product marketing is purposely deceptive, often referring to standards that require specific approvals with the words "recommend for". Realistically you cannot recommend an oil for a proprietary specification, such as VW/Audi 502.00, without access to the specification. And you cannot possibly have legal access to the specification without going through the approval process.
I realize Amsoil is a small company with limited resources and does not want to budget for, or afford the cost of specific manufacturer's approvals. Certainly many other excellent oil formulators are in the same boat.
As for who pays Terry? I can answer one part of that. My part. I have paid Terry for all research and testing that he has done on my behalf in the development of the RLI Biosyn 5W-40 product. Unlike many people, I do not accept free products, that way I am beholden to no one, and am free to publish, or not, any results that I care to.
The questions you ask about impartiality are good questions. Sometimes I find it is best to ask these questions off line, and then if the answers are not satisfactory make the questions public. I find more often than not that when pointed questions are asked in a public forum, there is usually another hidden agenda.
One more comment guys. I'm fairly new to BITOG, but I'm not new to science or engineering. I have a very good understanding of how to evaluate products, look at measured data, make predictions and formulate good interpretations. I went into this entire exercise with a very advanced engine that I was seriously concerned about, because it was new technology. I chose to work with Terry, because I'd heard that he was the best, but I was very careful to evaluate his service and findings at several steps along the way. (There was no way I was going to risk a $25K+ engine without due diligence on my part.)
I did not move to RLI products lightly. This was not done on a whim. For me, this was a serious R&D endeavor, and executed in the same way as any R&D effort in my business. I was very much hands on throughout the entire process, and paying top dollar for the best consulting I could buy. Along the way I collected a few other like minded souls who also were willing to participate in a study of oil in the same engine. In the end, between Terry, myself, and other auto enthusiasts that I would now call friends, we have been able to produce a significant amount of non-proprietary data on the RS4 engine, and use this data to predict oil performance and guide the formulation of an oil that performs light years better than the factory recommended alternative.
I have also taken a significant amount of time to publish some of the results. Why? For several reasons.
1) I'm proud of this particular accomplishment, and would like to share it with others, especially with those who have engines that fuel dilute like crazy.
2) I want people to know that Terry Dyson does a whole heck of a lot more than just piddly little $50 consumer oil analysis. He's a top-notch guy that I would work with on any project that I could. It's rare to fine someone in any subject matter that is as knowledgeable is he, with a such a huge breadth, and able to synthesize his knowledge into new areas and insights.
3) I want people to know about RLI as another oil alternative that is worth taking a look at.
Now, if you consider oil to be "just a commodity", then RLI is not for you.
If you consider that all information should be free, that I, Terry, or anyone else on this forum should answer questions to everyone's satisfaction, then you're just plain wrong. Some information is just too valuable, too expensive to come by, and will not be given away for free.
If your cost-benefit-analysis is basically a comparison of oil cost and OCI duration between multiple brands, then by all means use the lowest cost oil per OCI mile, and disregard wear is as being an important factor in the longevity of an engine. Quite frankly, if that is your criteria, you should be using $0.99 group III oil and change it frequently.
I have posted better information than has generally ever been published on oil analysis and comparisons in a specific engine than I've seen anywhere. And quite frankly, I'm getting tired of being sniped at constantly, both here, and on the car enthusiast forums I subscribe to. And like Terry, I'm about ready to pick up my marbles and go away. This forum may be a semi-democratic forum, but that does not make it your right to have specific information. Don't assume that because a certain piece of information is not shared that it means that something nefarious is going on.
I did not move to RLI products lightly. This was not done on a whim. For me, this was a serious R&D endeavor, and executed in the same way as any R&D effort in my business. I was very much hands on throughout the entire process, and paying top dollar for the best consulting I could buy. Along the way I collected a few other like minded souls who also were willing to participate in a study of oil in the same engine. In the end, between Terry, myself, and other auto enthusiasts that I would now call friends, we have been able to produce a significant amount of non-proprietary data on the RS4 engine, and use this data to predict oil performance and guide the formulation of an oil that performs light years better than the factory recommended alternative.
I have also taken a significant amount of time to publish some of the results. Why? For several reasons.
1) I'm proud of this particular accomplishment, and would like to share it with others, especially with those who have engines that fuel dilute like crazy.
2) I want people to know that Terry Dyson does a whole heck of a lot more than just piddly little $50 consumer oil analysis. He's a top-notch guy that I would work with on any project that I could. It's rare to fine someone in any subject matter that is as knowledgeable is he, with a such a huge breadth, and able to synthesize his knowledge into new areas and insights.
3) I want people to know about RLI as another oil alternative that is worth taking a look at.
Now, if you consider oil to be "just a commodity", then RLI is not for you.
If you consider that all information should be free, that I, Terry, or anyone else on this forum should answer questions to everyone's satisfaction, then you're just plain wrong. Some information is just too valuable, too expensive to come by, and will not be given away for free.
If your cost-benefit-analysis is basically a comparison of oil cost and OCI duration between multiple brands, then by all means use the lowest cost oil per OCI mile, and disregard wear is as being an important factor in the longevity of an engine. Quite frankly, if that is your criteria, you should be using $0.99 group III oil and change it frequently.
I have posted better information than has generally ever been published on oil analysis and comparisons in a specific engine than I've seen anywhere. And quite frankly, I'm getting tired of being sniped at constantly, both here, and on the car enthusiast forums I subscribe to. And like Terry, I'm about ready to pick up my marbles and go away. This forum may be a semi-democratic forum, but that does not make it your right to have specific information. Don't assume that because a certain piece of information is not shared that it means that something nefarious is going on.
Terry, I may have read your post wrong but you aren't planning on quitting the consumer oil testing are you?
Jon
Jon
Pablo=tosser. Terry the rest of us respect you, ignore this wanker.
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