RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman, age 46
- Thread starter dparm
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Very skilled actor (even if his roles were often depressing). Too bad he decided to use drugs. He and he alone ruined his life. Sad that he had a family that he placed below his drug use. Yes...I know...it's a "disease" and an addiction. Doesn't matter because he chose to take the drug at some point without yet being addicted. He knew all about addictions and drug use (as we all do) before he made his choice. Poor decision....predictable end.
Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral
He never looked like a healthy person in interviews I'd seen. Whatever happened to the simple days when actors/actresses died of "ordinary" things like alcoholism?
Like Judy Garland or Billie Holiday....?
A lot of suicides too.
Hollywood has always been a fragile lot. Many of them have "problems" that the rest of us just call life.
He never looked like a healthy person in interviews I'd seen. Whatever happened to the simple days when actors/actresses died of "ordinary" things like alcoholism?
Like Judy Garland or Billie Holiday....?
A lot of suicides too.
Hollywood has always been a fragile lot. Many of them have "problems" that the rest of us just call life.
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral
He never looked like a healthy person in interviews I'd seen. Whatever happened to the simple days when actors/actresses died of "ordinary" things like alcoholism?
Like Judy Garland or Billie Holiday....?
A lot of suicides too.
Hollywood has always been a fragile lot. Many of them have "problems" that the rest of us just call life.
Agreed....but the rate of disposing of ones life today has surely increased. It's almost celebrated to be in rehab or have some addiction. Self destructive behavior is worn like a badge of honor these days. Too darn much negativity these days. So many more films and other forms of entertainment are filled with depression, negativity, and gloom.
Just my opinion.
Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral
He never looked like a healthy person in interviews I'd seen. Whatever happened to the simple days when actors/actresses died of "ordinary" things like alcoholism?
Like Judy Garland or Billie Holiday....?
A lot of suicides too.
Hollywood has always been a fragile lot. Many of them have "problems" that the rest of us just call life.
Agreed....but the rate of disposing of ones life today has surely increased. It's almost celebrated to be in rehab or have some addiction. Self destructive behavior is worn like a badge of honor these days. Too darn much negativity these days. So many more films and other forms of entertainment are filled with depression, negativity, and gloom.
Just my opinion.
Originally Posted By: 97tbird
Originally Posted By: hardcore302
People use Seboxin and Methadone for years after they kick heroin.
It's Suboxone.
thank you spelling nazi. Im a cop, not a pharmacy tech..
but you are right, the district attourney would probably laugh at me lol
Originally Posted By: hardcore302
People use Seboxin and Methadone for years after they kick heroin.
It's Suboxone.
thank you spelling nazi. Im a cop, not a pharmacy tech..
but you are right, the district attourney would probably laugh at me lol
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I dont understand it either - can't hold a lot of respect when something like that is done, and is their end.
Sad but really just stupid more than anything else.
Well said.
Also this person had ALL the advantages in life and threw it all away.
I always say NOBODY forces anyone to use that first hit of anything.
Agreed. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I dont understand it either - can't hold a lot of respect when something like that is done, and is their end.
Sad but really just stupid more than anything else.
Well said.
Also this person had ALL the advantages in life and threw it all away.
I always say NOBODY forces anyone to use that first hit of anything.
Agreed. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
What bothers me is that when you buy use these drugs, you are supporting the worst elements of society. Organized crimals who murder and intimidate. When you are robbed or your home burglarized it is often by persons that need to feed a habit. Yes he and Gandolfi were talented and I am sure that they had redeeming qualities, but I have a hard time looking past the collateral damage that they do to society and their families by feeding their habit.
Originally Posted By: Burt
but I have a hard time looking past the collateral damage that they do to society and their families by feeding their habit.
I have those exact feelings about the governments who make failed laws that give rise to criminal empires and marginalize as criminals the people who need help.
but I have a hard time looking past the collateral damage that they do to society and their families by feeding their habit.
I have those exact feelings about the governments who make failed laws that give rise to criminal empires and marginalize as criminals the people who need help.
Whether a person associates this event to choice or mental illness, I just look at it as being tragic. It's just a shame that this happens, and it seems worse when it's a gifted person.
Many people feel better if they can rationalize something like this. I do. If some teens die in a car crash while driving drunk, well, it's easier to accept that rather than if they were hit by a careless semi driver. If a professional car driver dies while racing or a fire fighter dies on duty, it feels a bit better to acknowledge that they chose their known dangerous profession and died doing what they had a passion for. I suppose it's human nature for us to seek a way to feel better about ourselves and the incident at hand.
But still, it's tragic and sad, however one chooses to rationalize it. I tend to be on the compassionate side because I know that I am human, I make mistakes, I am not perfect.
Many people feel better if they can rationalize something like this. I do. If some teens die in a car crash while driving drunk, well, it's easier to accept that rather than if they were hit by a careless semi driver. If a professional car driver dies while racing or a fire fighter dies on duty, it feels a bit better to acknowledge that they chose their known dangerous profession and died doing what they had a passion for. I suppose it's human nature for us to seek a way to feel better about ourselves and the incident at hand.
But still, it's tragic and sad, however one chooses to rationalize it. I tend to be on the compassionate side because I know that I am human, I make mistakes, I am not perfect.
Or folks are just learning from the mistakes of others. Intelligence is learning from your own mistakes. Wisdom is learning from the mistakes of others.
Choosing never to take that first hit of anything, grass, smack, coke, crack, whatever is the wise choice. You don't have to deal with addiction if you simply don't start.
I don't know if it's feeling good about myself, or simply validation of the choices I've made so far in this life. You observe how drugs impact others and try to teach your children to never start.
Drug addiction for all except those born addicted babies is a totally avoidable problem.
That doesn't mean we don't have compassion for those addicted. But I think we also need to be realistic that it's a problem that is in some part created by the addict.
Choosing never to take that first hit of anything, grass, smack, coke, crack, whatever is the wise choice. You don't have to deal with addiction if you simply don't start.
I don't know if it's feeling good about myself, or simply validation of the choices I've made so far in this life. You observe how drugs impact others and try to teach your children to never start.
Drug addiction for all except those born addicted babies is a totally avoidable problem.
That doesn't mean we don't have compassion for those addicted. But I think we also need to be realistic that it's a problem that is in some part created by the addict.
Everyone who's never had a drag off a cig or taken a sip of alcohol, raise their hand?
[I'm imagining maybe a couple people only - Pop Rivet?]
For the rest of us - its kinda hard to judge when its not you and not your life. Schtuff happens. When it happens to people we know personally or 'famous' people, we like to talk about it like we have authority to do so. Its a bummer for his family, just like it would be if he was a no-name guy at the office/factory/etc.
[I'm imagining maybe a couple people only - Pop Rivet?]
For the rest of us - its kinda hard to judge when its not you and not your life. Schtuff happens. When it happens to people we know personally or 'famous' people, we like to talk about it like we have authority to do so. Its a bummer for his family, just like it would be if he was a no-name guy at the office/factory/etc.
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Or folks are just learning from the mistakes of others. Intelligence is learning from your own mistakes. Wisdom is learning from the mistakes of others.
Choosing never to take that first hit of anything, grass, smack, coke, crack, whatever is the wise choice. You don't have to deal with addiction if you simply don't start.
I don't know if it's feeling good about myself, or simply validation of the choices I've made so far in this life. You observe how drugs impact others and try to teach your children to never start.
Drug addiction for all except those born addicted babies is a totally avoidable problem.
That doesn't mean we don't have compassion for those addicted. But I think we also need to be realistic that it's a problem that is in some part created by the addict.
Very good post that states the seemingly obvious.
Or folks are just learning from the mistakes of others. Intelligence is learning from your own mistakes. Wisdom is learning from the mistakes of others.
Choosing never to take that first hit of anything, grass, smack, coke, crack, whatever is the wise choice. You don't have to deal with addiction if you simply don't start.
I don't know if it's feeling good about myself, or simply validation of the choices I've made so far in this life. You observe how drugs impact others and try to teach your children to never start.
Drug addiction for all except those born addicted babies is a totally avoidable problem.
That doesn't mean we don't have compassion for those addicted. But I think we also need to be realistic that it's a problem that is in some part created by the addict.
Very good post that states the seemingly obvious.
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Everyone who's never had a drag off a cig or taken a sip of alcohol, raise their hand?
[I'm imagining maybe a couple people only - Pop Rivet?]
For the rest of us - its kinda hard to judge when its not you and not your life. Schtuff happens. When it happens to people we know personally or 'famous' people, we like to talk about it like we have authority to do so. Its a bummer for his family, just like it would be if he was a no-name guy at the office/factory/etc.
I completely disagree. I make judgements and choices every single day....for me as well as what I see happening to others. It's called using one decision making skills in order to survive in this world. Observation of the actions of others (call it judgement) and based on the outcome of such actions we can make some fairly basic deductions. If, as a kid, I took a puff off a cigarette, did I risk addiction? Very, very small if any chance of that. Did I do that? Yes I did. Why am I NOT addicted to them them? Because even at a young age I realized that I didn't want to become addicted to them.....so that was about it for me. Anything more harmful or habit forming I made the JUDGEMENT call that it wasn't worth the risk to try it. Alcohol? Sure, in moderation. Nothing in my family line gave me any indications that alcoholism was an issue. I tried it....and decided that only a beer or two was all that was needed to be satisfied. If it was any more than that....I would have made the JUDGEMENT call to cease. I do the same sort of decision making today in regard to medications or other such substances that can be addicting. Never been hooked on anything in my life (that is harmful to ones health) due to using my JUDGEMENT abilities.
In retrospect of this actors decisions I think it HIGHLY appropriate that we judge his actions critically.Especially the younger crowd. At least let this persons very poor decisions in life be a lesson to learn from.
Everyone who's never had a drag off a cig or taken a sip of alcohol, raise their hand?
[I'm imagining maybe a couple people only - Pop Rivet?]
For the rest of us - its kinda hard to judge when its not you and not your life. Schtuff happens. When it happens to people we know personally or 'famous' people, we like to talk about it like we have authority to do so. Its a bummer for his family, just like it would be if he was a no-name guy at the office/factory/etc.
I completely disagree. I make judgements and choices every single day....for me as well as what I see happening to others. It's called using one decision making skills in order to survive in this world. Observation of the actions of others (call it judgement) and based on the outcome of such actions we can make some fairly basic deductions. If, as a kid, I took a puff off a cigarette, did I risk addiction? Very, very small if any chance of that. Did I do that? Yes I did. Why am I NOT addicted to them them? Because even at a young age I realized that I didn't want to become addicted to them.....so that was about it for me. Anything more harmful or habit forming I made the JUDGEMENT call that it wasn't worth the risk to try it. Alcohol? Sure, in moderation. Nothing in my family line gave me any indications that alcoholism was an issue. I tried it....and decided that only a beer or two was all that was needed to be satisfied. If it was any more than that....I would have made the JUDGEMENT call to cease. I do the same sort of decision making today in regard to medications or other such substances that can be addicting. Never been hooked on anything in my life (that is harmful to ones health) due to using my JUDGEMENT abilities.
In retrospect of this actors decisions I think it HIGHLY appropriate that we judge his actions critically.Especially the younger crowd. At least let this persons very poor decisions in life be a lesson to learn from.
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Originally Posted By: javacontour
Drug addiction for all except those born addicted babies is a totally avoidable problem............... But I think we also need to be realistic that it's a problem that is in some part created by the addict.
And that belief will always be a point of difference to people. Some will counter to say that making your statement would be as silly as saying some people choose to be asthmatic, diabetic, or get cancer. Of course lifestyle does contribute sometimes to getting health issues, but others that lead very healthy lives also get these diseases.
I believe that mental illness is every bit an illness as physical ones are. The brain can and does malfunction. I believe that a mentally ill person can succumb to addictions beyond their control. I simply find it impossible to believe that Karen Carpenter actively chose to starve herself to death.
I don't condone all this madness. I'm not saying mental illness is a scapegoat to rationalize addictions. Some will self destruct no matter what. I do acknowledge that people have weaknesses that are beyond personal control unless effective intervention is enacted. I don't agree with the choice argument if mental illness is involved.
This is a point that people will never agree on and I accept that. Everyone has an opinion based on their perceptions and life experiences.
Drug addiction for all except those born addicted babies is a totally avoidable problem............... But I think we also need to be realistic that it's a problem that is in some part created by the addict.
And that belief will always be a point of difference to people. Some will counter to say that making your statement would be as silly as saying some people choose to be asthmatic, diabetic, or get cancer. Of course lifestyle does contribute sometimes to getting health issues, but others that lead very healthy lives also get these diseases.
I believe that mental illness is every bit an illness as physical ones are. The brain can and does malfunction. I believe that a mentally ill person can succumb to addictions beyond their control. I simply find it impossible to believe that Karen Carpenter actively chose to starve herself to death.
I don't condone all this madness. I'm not saying mental illness is a scapegoat to rationalize addictions. Some will self destruct no matter what. I do acknowledge that people have weaknesses that are beyond personal control unless effective intervention is enacted. I don't agree with the choice argument if mental illness is involved.
This is a point that people will never agree on and I accept that. Everyone has an opinion based on their perceptions and life experiences.
Originally Posted By: javacontour
You don't have to deal with addiction if you simply don't start.
People who are prone to addictive behaviour are just as unable to not start as they are of not continuing. The problem is the mind of the addict. How they go about destroying or sabotaging themselves is largely immaterial.
You don't have to deal with addiction if you simply don't start.
People who are prone to addictive behaviour are just as unable to not start as they are of not continuing. The problem is the mind of the addict. How they go about destroying or sabotaging themselves is largely immaterial.
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Who?
Same here; I have no idea who this person was.
HOWEVER, I am shocked to hear that this person was only 46. I have seen 76 year old men who looked better than this person. Does drugs did that to him?
Who?
Same here; I have no idea who this person was.
HOWEVER, I am shocked to hear that this person was only 46. I have seen 76 year old men who looked better than this person. Does drugs did that to him?
Perhaps. I'm not saying there isn't mental illness. But I think we must guard against that becoming the get out of jail card for everybody.
I.E. if everyone is mentally ill, then no one is mentally ill.
The question is what does a humane society do about those unwilling or unable to engage in rational decision making?
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Drug addiction for all except those born addicted babies is a totally avoidable problem............... But I think we also need to be realistic that it's a problem that is in some part created by the addict.
And that belief will always be a point of difference to people. Some will counter to say that making your statement would be as silly as saying some people choose to be asthmatic, diabetic, or get cancer. Of course lifestyle does contribute sometimes to getting health issues, but others that lead very healthy lives also get these diseases.
I believe that mental illness is every bit an illness as physical ones are. The brain can and does malfunction. I believe that a mentally ill person can succumb to addictions beyond their control. I simply find it impossible to believe that Karen Carpenter actively chose to starve herself to death.
I don't condone all this madness. I'm not saying mental illness is a scapegoat to rationalize addictions. Some will self destruct no matter what. I do acknowledge that people have weaknesses that are beyond personal control unless effective intervention is enacted. I don't agree with the choice argument if mental illness is involved.
This is a point that people will never agree on and I accept that. Everyone has an opinion based on their perceptions and life experiences.
I.E. if everyone is mentally ill, then no one is mentally ill.
The question is what does a humane society do about those unwilling or unable to engage in rational decision making?
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Drug addiction for all except those born addicted babies is a totally avoidable problem............... But I think we also need to be realistic that it's a problem that is in some part created by the addict.
And that belief will always be a point of difference to people. Some will counter to say that making your statement would be as silly as saying some people choose to be asthmatic, diabetic, or get cancer. Of course lifestyle does contribute sometimes to getting health issues, but others that lead very healthy lives also get these diseases.
I believe that mental illness is every bit an illness as physical ones are. The brain can and does malfunction. I believe that a mentally ill person can succumb to addictions beyond their control. I simply find it impossible to believe that Karen Carpenter actively chose to starve herself to death.
I don't condone all this madness. I'm not saying mental illness is a scapegoat to rationalize addictions. Some will self destruct no matter what. I do acknowledge that people have weaknesses that are beyond personal control unless effective intervention is enacted. I don't agree with the choice argument if mental illness is involved.
This is a point that people will never agree on and I accept that. Everyone has an opinion based on their perceptions and life experiences.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
HOWEVER, I am shocked to hear that this person was only 46. I have seen 76 year old men who looked better than this person. Does drugs did that to him?
It's tough to know if actors are looking scruffy due to personal reasons or they are geared up for a movie.
It has been suggested, though, that occassional bad writing skills are sometimes a symptom of drug use.
HOWEVER, I am shocked to hear that this person was only 46. I have seen 76 year old men who looked better than this person. Does drugs did that to him?
It's tough to know if actors are looking scruffy due to personal reasons or they are geared up for a movie.
It has been suggested, though, that occassional bad writing skills are sometimes a symptom of drug use.
Originally Posted By: hardcore302
Originally Posted By: 97tbird
Originally Posted By: hardcore302
People use Seboxin and Methadone for years after they kick heroin.
It's Suboxone.
thank you spelling nazi. Im a cop, not a pharmacy tech..
but you are right, the district attourney would probably laugh at me lol
Nah
I am not really a spelling nazi, and I am not a pharmacy tech either; happen to be a pharmacist.
Just noticed because I see MDs even spelling it wrong
Originally Posted By: 97tbird
Originally Posted By: hardcore302
People use Seboxin and Methadone for years after they kick heroin.
It's Suboxone.
thank you spelling nazi. Im a cop, not a pharmacy tech..
but you are right, the district attourney would probably laugh at me lol
Nah
Just noticed because I see MDs even spelling it wrong
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Everyone who's never had a drag off a cig or taken a sip of alcohol, raise their hand?
[I'm imagining maybe a couple people only - Pop Rivet?]
For the rest of us - its kinda hard to judge when its not you and not your life. Schtuff happens. When it happens to people we know personally or 'famous' people, we like to talk about it like we have authority to do so. Its a bummer for his family, just like it would be if he was a no-name guy at the office/factory/etc.
Let's see how many things you got wrong in your statement.
Comparing a "drag" off of a cigarette or a sip of alcohol to being an irresponsible, drugged out addict is a logical fallacy. No one with a modicum of intelligence would ever try to make that comparison.
"Schtuff" doesn't just happen. People cause things to happen through their lack of responsibility and self discipline; in this case not only did this guy end his own life, but he took himself out of his children's lives and left them without a father (not that he was much of a father to begin with). Implying that "stuff happens", especially in the case of a guy like this one, cheapens the self discipline that millions of other people who chose not to be addicts have shown.
We do have the right to judge the actions of others, especially when their utter lack of self discipline and personal responsibility impact others. And I'll go one further-we have the obligation to point out to kids and young people that what this guy brought on himself was his own fault. It's not society, it's not pressure, it's a lack of character and personal responsibility. People like this are a drag on society, and do nothing more than damage the lives of those around them.
Maybe his kids will understand how self destructive that behavior is, and chose a better path for themselves because of it.
Everyone who's never had a drag off a cig or taken a sip of alcohol, raise their hand?
[I'm imagining maybe a couple people only - Pop Rivet?]
For the rest of us - its kinda hard to judge when its not you and not your life. Schtuff happens. When it happens to people we know personally or 'famous' people, we like to talk about it like we have authority to do so. Its a bummer for his family, just like it would be if he was a no-name guy at the office/factory/etc.
Let's see how many things you got wrong in your statement.
Comparing a "drag" off of a cigarette or a sip of alcohol to being an irresponsible, drugged out addict is a logical fallacy. No one with a modicum of intelligence would ever try to make that comparison.
"Schtuff" doesn't just happen. People cause things to happen through their lack of responsibility and self discipline; in this case not only did this guy end his own life, but he took himself out of his children's lives and left them without a father (not that he was much of a father to begin with). Implying that "stuff happens", especially in the case of a guy like this one, cheapens the self discipline that millions of other people who chose not to be addicts have shown.
We do have the right to judge the actions of others, especially when their utter lack of self discipline and personal responsibility impact others. And I'll go one further-we have the obligation to point out to kids and young people that what this guy brought on himself was his own fault. It's not society, it's not pressure, it's a lack of character and personal responsibility. People like this are a drag on society, and do nothing more than damage the lives of those around them.
Maybe his kids will understand how self destructive that behavior is, and chose a better path for themselves because of it.
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