Right to Work Legislation

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Originally Posted By: CT8
The government employee unions are bad. The unions donate to elect politicians and the politicians give raises to the unions , Private sector unions are between the company and the worker ,not my business .


BINGO !

IMO the government/public sector unions need to be busted down...talk about "freeloaders"
 
None of you have any idea what unions do or stand for, and you never will because you are not part of one. As far as the whole dues thing and freeloading, maybe you will understand this. I am sure some of you are members of an organization like the American legion, VFW, eagles, or even the NRA. Any organization like these require what to be a member? Pay Dues. Lets say that in your state a law is passed that says any member of any organization does not have to pay dues if they don't want to. So lets say yourself and your next door neighbor are both members of the NRA and this law is passed. You continue to pay dues and your neighbor decides he isn't going to pay dues anymore, but still continue to get all the benefits. How would you feel about that? Would it [censored] you off? Or would you welcome him with open arms, and treat him like he's your long lost brother. So what happens when laws like these get passed and people don't pay dues? Your organization slowly goes away until it doesn't exist anymore. This is the whole point of right to work laws. Cut their funds until they cannot exist anymore.

I have been bashed a lot on this topic based on uneducated opinions and not facts.
 
Originally Posted By: sleddriver

That's why "Right to work" states ARE popular. Employers & people are fleeing to the South, and to Texas, which is a RTW state.


This is a bragging point? Employers like the south because they are able to pay employees less. It's not because southern workers are more skilled... it's because they're cheaper. This is something you brag about on the internet?

Enjoy the race to the bottom. I hope you win.
 
Some people would get a shock if they learnt how unions / employer:employee relations in Japan and Germany work ie the 2 countries that have the most profitable vehicle manufacturers.
 
^Thank you for pointing that out. I have live in Texas since the 1970's are we are definitely winning that race. While unions have a bad reputation around here I can see why they had/have a place. Employees, for the most part, are like livestock here - maybe everywhere, who knows.

The runaway popularity of the area in which I live has led to lots of traffic, pollution, and crime. There is very little of the friendliness left that I remember from growing up. It's just another place that prostituted itself to commerce.
 
Some believe that companies are run for the benefit of society. That's certainly a theme in Japan and Germany, society meaning the greater good of the country, the shareholders, the employees, the customers are all stakeholders.

In some instances here, I'd be grateful if companies were just run for the good of the shareholders, but too many times they are run for the good of the CEO and his buddies.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
The government employee unions are bad. The unions donate to elect politicians and the politicians give raises to the unions , Private sector unions are between the company and the worker ,not my business .


Government unions have PAC funds that are separate from union dues. Union and non union can give to the PAC funds but it is not required. The PAC fund is what is used for politics. Last I knew it was against Federal law to use dues for politics.
 
I would never join a union. Never! I detest them and what they have become. !00 years ago they may have been needed but that is not the case today. Actually, for the most part, they haven't been needed for a long time. If anything they are the problem now. Auto Workers, Teachers, Construction, etc... The list goes on and on of unions that are a problem.

The guys who keeps talking about how non union workers are lazy, free loaders, don't work as hard, how they would give non union workers in a RTW shop a hard time, etc... epitomize what is wrong with unions and why so many detest them. Just a bunch of bullies.

Every state in this country should have RTW legislation. And I mean real RTW not partial measures where there are trial periods before having to decide or having to pay a % even if not joining. Bottom line if you want the job, and the employer is willing to hire you, that is all that should matter. If it is a union shop and you want to join you should be able to. If you don't want to join they should not be able to force you to nor should they get a % of your pay. I would also like to see real and serious criminal penalties for union bullying of non union workers.

One of the biggest and most disgusting Union + Political back scratching deals I have ever seen was when the NJ State Government mandated only union construction workers could work on the Hurricane Sandy cleanup. Sending all those people home who came from out of state to lend a hand, and making the cleanup and rebuilding take longer thus prolonging the suffering of the residents, is shameful. Good luck to NJ the next time they have a disaster and need help. I would tell the Governor' office to call the local Union hall.

Just completely revolting. How any politician in that state, who voted for that, still has a job is a mystery to me. But then again, there are still a lot of people who think unions are good so what can you say. Again, I would never join one.
 
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I don't know. I believe that most trends come full circle. With most collective organizations emasculated we are almost back to the time of the "robber barons." If measured in today's dollars, these guys eclipse today's billionaires. Eventually, we will tire of the very lopsided distribution of wealth and something will happen to upset it.

I just hope it doesn't end up being as violent as it was at the tail end of the industrial revolution.

Yes, the so-called job creators take plenty of risks and deserve rewards. And, yes, many of them do use a lot of their wealth for the benefit of everyone. It's when the average Joe, who actually works hard, cannot participate in the overall prosperity that things get dicey.
 
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI

One of the biggest and most disgusting Union + Political back scratching deals I have ever seen was when the NJ State Government mandated only union construction workers could work on the Hurricane Sandy cleanup. Sending all those people home who came from out of state to lend a hand, and making the cleanup and rebuilding take longer thus prolonging the suffering of the residents, is shameful. Good luck to NJ the next time they have a disaster and need help. I would tell the Governor' office to call the local Union hall.

Just completely revolting. How any politician in that state, who voted for that, still has a job is a mystery to me. But then again, there are still a lot of people who think unions are good so what can you say. Again, I would never join one.


Political backscratching goes both ways when it comes to RTW legislation.

Michigan has a curious case of how RTW legislation came to be:

End-of-term lame-duck legislation session. A large number of term-limited elected officials who no longer had to report to their constituents or face an election opponent. No public discussion. It was introduced and enacted in a little over a month. Honestly, it's quite amazing how quickly a government operates when unchecked.

Conveniently, two public sector unions were left out of the RTW legislation: Police and fire. I guess it's just a coincidence that they're both very politically reliable when election time comes...
 
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI

One of the biggest and most disgusting Union + Political back scratching deals I have ever seen was when the NJ State Government mandated only union construction workers could work on the Hurricane Sandy cleanup. Sending all those people home who came from out of state to lend a hand, and making the cleanup and rebuilding take longer thus prolonging the suffering of the residents, is shameful. Good luck to NJ the next time they have a disaster and need help. I would tell the Governor' office to call the local Union hall.

Just completely revolting. How any politician in that state, who voted for that, still has a job is a mystery to me. But then again, there are still a lot of people who think unions are good so what can you say. Again, I would never join one.


Political backscratching goes both ways when it comes to RTW legislation.

Michigan has a curious case of how RTW legislation came to be:

End-of-term lame-duck legislation session. A large number of term-limited elected officials who no longer had to report to their constituents or face an election opponent. No public discussion. It was introduced and enacted in a little over a month. Honestly, it's quite amazing how quickly a government operates when unchecked.

Conveniently, two public sector unions were left out of the RTW legislation: Police and fire. I guess it's just a coincidence that they're both very politically reliable when election time comes...


How does this illustrate your point of back scratching going both ways? The Police & Fire unions it sounds like used their political clout to be exempt from RTW which is along the lines of my complaint about unions and politicians being in bed together i.e. the Hurricane Sandy cleanup being only union workers.

The politicians using the lame duck session to pass RTW has nothing to do with back scratching in any way shape or form. It is the exact opposite. That is politics at it's purest where the politician votes with their heart and does not take into account favors owed or what votes it may cost them.
 
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Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Originally Posted By: sleddriver

That's why "Right to work" states ARE popular. Employers & people are fleeing to the South, and to Texas, which is a RTW state.
This is a bragging point?
YBYA it is. I'm not alone in this. At all. We're not going broke here. MI is. Detroit is a failed city, remember? Why is that? Because the music finally stopped and there were very, very few chairs left.
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Employers like the south because they are able to pay employees less.
Not necessarily. Tx, for one, has no state income tax. Further, the cost of living is quite a bit cheaper: Gas, housing and food are less expensive here, regardless of your income level. That makes a BIG difference.
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
It's not because southern workers are more skilled... it's because they're cheaper.
. I'm not criticizing Northern workers as a whole. I'm criticizing the Northern union mentality, displayed so prominently previously. And make no mistake, I'm equally critical of the bad management that caused them in the first place. In the end, the true arbiter is the quality of the finished product or service. Don't believe me? Go ask the Japanese and Europeans.
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
This is something you brag about on the internet?
. See above.

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Enjoy the race to the bottom. I hope you win.
It's obvious you're playing with a losing hand. It's also obvious you don't like anyone telling the Truth. Detroit is already bankrupt. What a shame for a once great city. They've already won that race to the bottom..rock bottom..a decade ago. You want to brag on that? LOL...

Moving on....
 
Originally Posted By: FastGame
Originally Posted By: CT8
The government employee unions are bad. The unions donate to elect politicians and the politicians give raises to the unions, Private sector unions are between the company and the worker, not my business .

BINGO !

IMO the government/public sector unions need to be busted down...talk about "freeloaders"


Wisconsin Act 10 fixed that here, at least for the State.
 
No denying some large companies are moving south and not wanting to deal with unions, taxes, crazy business regulations, etc... they have to deal with up north. Year round better weather also helps running a company.

Why is the new Airbus factory built down south ?
Its not because of the delicious southern style BBQ.
 
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I just hope it doesn't end up being as violent as it was at the tail end of the industrial revolution.

At under 7% of the workforce (for private unions) I don't think that's a big worry.
 
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Enjoy the race to the bottom. I hope you win.


You do realize that some of the most economically depressed areas are the most heavily unionized, right?
 
Originally Posted By: BurrWinder
Originally Posted By: R80RS
Originally Posted By: marshall25
I will tell you this also, If I have to work along side a freeloader, I will make his work day a living [censored], and so will all my other union brothers.


No respect for another individual's dignity or personal decision. This sort of mentality is the reason why the general public holds unions in such low regard and why Right to Work laws are in effect in half the states, with more on the way.


+1


+2
 
Originally Posted By: marshall25
None of you have any idea what unions do or stand for, and you never will because you are not part of one. As far as the whole dues thing and freeloading, maybe you will understand this. I am sure some of you are members of an organization like the American legion, VFW, eagles, or even the NRA. Any organization like these require what to be a member? Pay Dues. Lets say that in your state a law is passed that says any member of any organization does not have to pay dues if they don't want to. So lets say yourself and your next door neighbor are both members of the NRA and this law is passed. You continue to pay dues and your neighbor decides he isn't going to pay dues anymore, but still continue to get all the benefits. How would you feel about that? Would it [censored] you off? Or would you welcome him with open arms, and treat him like he's your long lost brother. So what happens when laws like these get passed and people don't pay dues? Your organization slowly goes away until it doesn't exist anymore. This is the whole point of right to work laws. Cut their funds until they cannot exist anymore.

I have been bashed a lot on this topic based on uneducated opinions and not facts.


No, the whole point of right-to-work laws is to put the worker on a level playing field where they can decide for themselves whether a union brings any benefit or not. Unions don't like having their protected position disrupted.

The Wagner Act is the problem law, not RTW.
 
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