Replaced Iridium with Platinum Plugs

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Originally Posted By: willix
The point is they don't required service according to the schedule for 100,000 miles. They often last that long. That would be fact. I never owned a car for more than 70,000. Every car I have ever owned has had the plugs replaced as good measure as part of a initial maintenance that one would do to a used car.


Automakers list 100k tune-ups for one reason - to make the car appear low maintanence to customers. Secondly, they use long life plugs to last thru the emmissions warranty. Yes, some plugs do last the 100k (but how is that car running and how much strain on the ignition system?) but many do not. You state that they last 100k as a fact yet you change them out at +/-70k (which is good practice) so where is the "fact" if you never went the full 100k?
 
Thanks guys. I put a set of Bosch Platinums in it. The OEM NGK plugs still looked good, but I am all about changing things out before they become a problem since I dont want to be 1,000 miles from my shop on a research trip to an archive and start having problems with it.

And on my motor its not a hassle so while I was doing a transmission service, brakes, an oil change, and replacing the air filter I figured what the heck.
 
I thought I remembered reading that while they last longer, copper plugs actually have more spark energy? Those precious metals don't actually conduct that well.

I have read on the Subaru forums that guys who actually rally cross run copper for that reason, with a more frequent change interval.
 
I don't really think the resistance of the plug matters much. A typical new platinum or iridium plug start out at 5-7K OHMS, I'm not sure about copper plugs but I think it is close. Once you run plugs the resistance is going to increase. How hot the spark is, is mostly dependent on plug gap, and the fast wearing copper plugs more so. Regular plugs do work fine though for shorter intervals and usually are more durable in high performance applications.
 
Originally Posted By: deeter16317
I thought I remembered reading that while they last longer, copper plugs actually have more spark energy? Those precious metals don't actually conduct that well.

I have read on the Subaru forums that guys who actually rally cross run copper for that reason, with a more frequent change interval.



K, perhaps you or the other posters misunderstood the notions of copper (especially copper resistor plugs)plugs: copper plugs does not mean that the entire plug, from the spark plug boot end all the way to the tip are made of copper (firing tip electrode and ground electrode are made of nickel alloy for wear/erosion resistance) but only sections of the electrical conducting core inside composed of copper alloy. Copper has the characteristics of heat dissipation and when done properly, should go along with the ceramic stem nicely as far as gas sealing and thermal expansion property's concerned. In other words: the tip is not made of copper alloy(won't be) for corrosion/erosion resistance and durability.

resistor inside spark plugs have been mainstream since the 60s and onwards and main purpose is for radio noise suppression (RFI suppression). Under high voltage (high tension) situation, the resistor poses little to no effect to the overall spark energy (or the voltage it takes to cause the ionisation of gas on the sparking electrode tips before spark jumps the electrode) at all. The only time you'll feel the impact on resistor/non-resistor would be on an non-electronic sparking system (e.g. point type) and/or having poor/inconsistent high voltage generation issues.

Lastly: with modern stringent emissions systems and control, it is against modern motorist's favour to have a low-tech, unreliable sparking systems (point type HV systems, copper plugs, etc.) for the modern ODB-II systems are very sophisicated and intolerant to poor/inconsistent ignition systems. Copper plugs are good for typically no more than 20,000miles (standard ignition systems only; "waste spark" type not applicable for the erosion on electrode tips are magnitudes quicker) before they start to exhibit significant deterioration in performance and firing consistency, which will trigger all kinds of CEL codes or even damage emissions components and monitoring devices downstream.

This is the reason why manufacturers resort to using at least Platinum (better erosion resistance than copper, sub-par to that of iridium) as standard equipment these days.

Since major spark plug manufacturers differs in manufacturing methodology, etc. even between different materials (e.g. copper, iridium, platinum, etc.) due to different thermal expansion rate in these metals and also from a gas sealing and fusing to ceramic body standpoint), and also different firing voltage requirments and heat ranges, etc. casualy changing any engines that use iridium/platinum as standard (per engine design by car manufacturers) to copper plugs and claimed performance gain is, IMHO, deemed ignorant, if not reckless.

My 2cent's worth.

Q.

p.s. modern solid-state ignition systems are capable of generating in excess of 10kV easily, and sparks strong enough to jump a gap of over 1" consistently. Anyone whose taking on the observation of the difference in firing voltage between copper vs precious metals such as platinum, iridium, etc. to have an observable impact on modern EFI (particulary OBD-II systems) engined cars should think again.
 
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Iridium is the premium material. It has less resistance than platinum. But platinum is very good, you are not really suffering.
Any fresh plug usually shows an immediate improvement.
 
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Thanks guys. I put a set of Bosch Platinums in it. The OEM NGK plugs still looked good, but I am all about changing things out before they become a problem since I dont want to be 1,000 miles from my shop on a research trip to an archive and start having problems with it.

And on my motor its not a hassle so while I was doing a transmission service, brakes, an oil change, and replacing the air filter I figured what the heck.


You put in Bosch Platinums in a Toyota? I hope you did not throw away the original plugs which came out of the car. They will come in handy when you get unexplained CEL few thousand miles the road and you can put them back to get the car running properly again.

On a Toyota 90K NGK Laser Platinum > New Bosch Platinum

- Vikas
 
I doubt the Bosches will give him any trouble. I hear that talk a lot but have only seen rare instances of it happening. But I hope he does keep the old plugs so IF something goes wrong AND he can pinpoint the plugs , he can report back to us.
 
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so where is the "fact" if you never went the full 100k?

[/quote]Its true that I base this on others experiences. I do recall a 78 Pontiac that went a honest 80,000 mi on the original plugs. That old HEI was still arcing a spark with a 0.120 gap. in that 350 motor. There wasn't anything special about those AC plugs. There are plenty of those who swear by the original AC platiums in there GM and use them for the duartion + or -. I replaced my original plugs at 95,000 mi. I know they were original because they were a discontinued part & revised. The car ran perfect. I had driven the car 40,000mi at that point. One of the replacements was defective & had a pin hole in the porcelin.
 
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Originally Posted By: Vikas
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Thanks guys. I put a set of Bosch Platinums in it. The OEM NGK plugs still looked good, but I am all about changing things out before they become a problem since I dont want to be 1,000 miles from my shop on a research trip to an archive and start having problems with it.

And on my motor its not a hassle so while I was doing a transmission service, brakes, an oil change, and replacing the air filter I figured what the heck.


You put in Bosch Platinums in a Toyota? I hope you did not throw away the original plugs which came out of the car. They will come in handy when you get unexplained CEL few thousand miles the road and you can put them back to get the car running properly again.

On a Toyota 90K NGK Laser Platinum > New Bosch Platinum

- Vikas


I have used Bosches before in other Yota's before including our older Celica and never had an issue. I did indeed save the old ones, but I doubt i will need them. I already have 1k miles on the new plugs and they actually seem to be working better. Car starts better in the cold with the Bosch plugs.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Thanks guys. I put a set of Bosch Platinums in it. The OEM NGK plugs still looked good, but I am all about changing things out before they become a problem since I dont want to be 1,000 miles from my shop on a research trip to an archive and start having problems with it.

...


You put in Bosch Platinums in a Toyota? I hope you did not throw away the original plugs which came out of the car. They will come in handy when you get unexplained CEL few thousand miles the road and you can put them back to get the car running properly again.

On a Toyota 90K NGK Laser Platinum > New Bosch Platinum

- Vikas
Bosh have very high energy requirement and are not tolerated by COP ignition. One of the Coils will be toasted in no time. The MAIN reason for the Ir plugs as OEM other rthan long in-service life, is the low voltage required to generate a spark and a major reduction in misfire counts. Small denso COP coils cannot fire std plugs with 1.1mm gap without high failure rate. I would immediately get the Correct Denso or NGK Ir in back there or you will be 1000miles out and have a coil failure.
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Bosch have very high energy requirement and are not tolerated by COP ignition. One of the Coils will be toasted in no time. The MAIN reason for the Ir plugs as OEM other than long in-service life, is the low voltage required to generate a spark and a major reduction in misfire counts. Small denso COP coils cannot fire std plugs with 1.1mm gap without high failure rate. I would immediately get the Correct Denso or NGK Ir in back there or you will be 1000miles out and have a coil failure.


This is the one I observed too, but I just want to know if there is any literature that support this ?
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Thanks guys. I put a set of Bosch Platinums in it. The OEM NGK plugs still looked good, but I am all about changing things out before they become a problem since I dont want to be 1,000 miles from my shop on a research trip to an archive and start having problems with it.

...


You put in Bosch Platinums in a Toyota? I hope you did not throw away the original plugs which came out of the car. They will come in handy when you get unexplained CEL few thousand miles the road and you can put them back to get the car running properly again.

On a Toyota 90K NGK Laser Platinum > New Bosch Platinum

- Vikas
Bosh have very high energy requirement and are not tolerated by COP ignition. One of the Coils will be toasted in no time. The MAIN reason for the Ir plugs as OEM other rthan long in-service life, is the low voltage required to generate a spark and a major reduction in misfire counts. Small denso COP coils cannot fire std plugs with 1.1mm gap without high failure rate. I would immediately get the Correct Denso or NGK Ir in back there or you will be 1000miles out and have a coil failure.



I see you are running lawnmower oil in your car. Sounds like I am not the only one not using OEM recommended stuff in a Toyota. :)
 
Originally Posted By: kr_bitog
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Bosch have very high energy requirement and are not tolerated by COP ignition. One of the Coils will be toasted in no time. The MAIN reason for the Ir plugs as OEM other than long in-service life, is the low voltage required to generate a spark and a major reduction in misfire counts. Small denso COP coils cannot fire std plugs with 1.1mm gap without high failure rate. I would immediately get the Correct Denso or NGK Ir in back there or you will be 1000miles out and have a coil failure.


This is the one I observed too, but I just want to know if there is any literature that support this ?



Probably not. Bosch has always advertised that their plugs require LESS voltage to fire.
 
LOL
 
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: kr_bitog
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Bosch have very high energy requirement and are not tolerated by COP ignition. One of the Coils will be toasted in no time. The MAIN reason for the Ir plugs as OEM other than long in-service life, is the low voltage required to generate a spark and a major reduction in misfire counts. Small denso COP coils cannot fire std plugs with 1.1mm gap without high failure rate. I would immediately get the Correct Denso or NGK Ir in back there or you will be 1000miles out and have a coil failure.


This is the one I observed too, but I just want to know if there is any literature that support this ?



Probably not. Bosch has always advertised that their plugs require LESS voltage to fire.


Yes they have a video up on their sight saying that their plugs require much less energy to fire.
 
I ran NGK OEM in my car for 141k miles. When they came out, the gap was over 3mm. The car was still running great when they came out. It implies that the car's ignition system had enough oomph to ignite 3mm gap. The pictures of a plug (they all looked similar) Click on it to see the bigger image.

 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I ran NGK OEM in my car for 141k miles. When they came out, the gap was over 3mm. The car was still running great when they came out. It implies that the car's ignition system had enough oomph to ignite 3mm gap. The pictures of a plug (they all looked similar) Click on it to see the bigger image.





And that's my point from earlier. Your car may be running ok at the 100k+ mark but you are straining the electrical system (esp. coils). For the cost of spark plugs, I'll replace them earlier rather than risk expensive ignition components.
 
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