Removing existing waxes & sealants

[buster]

I was reading this older post on AG from two guys that seem to be either chemists or just really knowledgeable. They were saying that even when you use a high alkaline base product (a prep soap for example), and remove a sealant, just because the water doesn't bead doesn't technically mean there is no sealant left. I forget the other technical parts of it, but it was interesting. It seems to me that the only way to remove an existing sealant is to polish. There is little getting around that.

It is harder to remove a sealant chemically than people think. A true paint cleaner will. TAC System has a good one. I've seen guys on YouTube that treat a panel with a sealant and then apply all kind of APC's etc and it is still there and beading.

Bottom line: it is harder than most think to chemically get rid of a sealant.

This post however was from 2013. So unless these prep soaps contain other ingredients that help breakdown sealants, rather than just relying on the high pH, I have to assume they only work to a very limited extent.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Dawn dish soap combined with clay bar will do it every time.

 

[buster]

Dawn dish soap combined with clay bar will do it every time.

That's a myth. Doesn't work. Neither does IPA. That one may have been started by Sal Zaino.

 

[iahawk]

a machine polish will remove it every time!

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

That's a myth. Doesn't work. Neither does IPA. That one may have been started by Sal Zaino.

Remember your title states "Remove waxes and sealants".

Dawn will strip wax. The video speaks of sealants so it's not really relevant. As I said clay bar will get rid of typical sealants and of course so will the typical prep routine using a cutting pad w/orbital buffer.

When Zaino was introduced carnauba wax was the predominate form of paint protection and it's fantastic for prep because it will also remove petroleum products (tar, road asphalt, etc). At the time Klasse AIO and SG were the only other readily available sealant products. Clay bar will get rid of typical sealants but I'm not sure about ceramics. Clay bar takes time and I would not be surprised if detailing businesses have moved on to other products which perform the job much faster.

 

[buster]

The prep soaps will likely remove waxes, but sealants are a different animal. I'm not sure if a clay bar will remove a sealant? Do we know that for sure?

I'm strictly focused on chemically removing a sealant. Clearly a polisher will.

 

[Crashbox]

I think it depends a lot on the brand of sealant. There are some YouTube videos showing durability comparisons using various chemicals such as diluted IPA and others. One of my favorite YT channels, Apex Detail, mentions using either Citrol 266 or Eastwood's Pre Painting Prep wax & grease remover for the task. That said, IMO if you are trying to remove Jescar Power Lock Plus sealant... I wish you the best. That stuff is TOUGH!!

 

[buster]

I think it depends a lot on the brand of sealant. There are some YouTube videos showing durability comparisons using various chemicals such as diluted IPA and others. One of my favorite YT channels, Apex Detail, mentions using either Citrol 266 or Eastwood's Pre Painting Prep wax & grease remover for the task. That said, IMO if you are trying to remove Jescar Power Lock Plus sealant... I wish you the best. That stuff is TOUGH!!

Good point. I too like Apex Detail. Informative.

 

[NYSteve]

basically, you are chasing your tail here.

You typically want to remove old sealant to put new sealant on. However, in removing old sealant, you are going to need to mechanically and chemically remove it with a combination of clay bar, polish with a DA (not polish and wax, but true polish), and a final prep wipe so you have a pristine surface for the new one. but without the DA polish, you aren't sure what is left and you marred the surface with clay.

I would just do a thorough wash and put whatever you want over your old sealant. you know it's protected and you can do a full correction whenever you want down the road.

 

[demarpaint]

basically, you are chasing your tail here.

You typically want to remove old sealant to put new sealant on. However, in removing old sealant, you are going to need to mechanically and chemically remove it with a combination of clay bar, polish with a DA (not polish and wax, but true polish), and a final prep wipe so you have a pristine surface for the new one. but without the DA polish, you aren't sure what is left and you marred the surface with clay.

I would just do a thorough wash and put whatever you want over your old sealant. you know it's protected and you can do a full correction whenever you want down the road.

I'm with you. Sometimes less is more. IMO the less you chemically and/or mechanically attack something like removing a good sealant the better it is for the clear coat. I'd rather have a job last a slightly shorter time, than use something that over time may erode or compromise an already thin coat of clear coat, unless it is absolutely necessary.

 

[buster]

Good points. I don't disagree, however in order to get the maximum out of any base layer, you really do want to strip any previous wax/sealant that was on before, otherwise you're wasting your time and not getting the most out of it. However, going forward from that point on I'm ok with just adding to it.

 

[Dave9]

It depends on your goal. If you are just going to put on another sealant, no, you don't need to remove every last trace down to a chemist's nanoparticle satisfaction.

It also depends on what the sealant is, whether hot, strong detergent or another alkaline mix will remove it, and what % with each pass of washing it, amount of abrasion, etc. To some extent, the surface you applied it to was not perfect so some level of removal of that surface will be needed to get the last fraction of a % off, which if you're going for short term beauty could help but if going for long term lasting paint, you don't want to remove any more surface than necessary, are better off leaving that last fraction of a % of old sealant as long as it hasn't hazed.

Putting new sealant over old sealant that's still clear is not so different than putting sealant on clearcoat in the first place, or wax over sealant, except you don't want to put the new sealant over contaminants stuck in the old sealant so it does need stripped off enough to get to that point.

 

[buster]

except you don't want to put the new sealant over contaminants stuck in the old sealant so it does need stripped off enough to get to that point.

Right. And to ensure proper bonding and for maximum longevity, I would think having the paint cleaned/polished first is the correct way to do it.

I usually don't polish my cars, ever. Usually I do what others have already stated and just wash/clay and apply new wax/sealant.

 

[demarpaint]

Good points. I don't disagree, however in order to get the maximum out of any base layer, you really do want to strip any previous wax/sealant that was on before, otherwise you're wasting your time and not getting the most out of it. However, going forward from that point on I'm ok with just adding to it.

Exactly, since this isn't an exact science I make a judgement call. I know a few people that strip wax, clay make sure the finish feels like glass 2-3 times a year or more. They aren't doing their clear coat any favors. I'll give up a month or two of longevity to have my clear coat last longer. Sometimes you can kill something with kindness.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Right. And to ensure proper bonding and for maximum longevity, I would think having the paint cleaned/polished first is the correct way to do it.

I usually don't polish my cars, ever. Usually I do what others have already stated and just wash/clay and apply new wax/sealant.

Same here. Nice thing about clay is that can't remove clearcoat.

 

[NYSteve]

Good points. I don't disagree, however in order to get the maximum out of any base layer, you really do want to strip any previous wax/sealant that was on before, otherwise you're wasting your time and not getting the most out of it. However, going forward from that point on I'm ok with just adding to it.

I took the autogeek detailing class and two mantras they hammered home is:
1. nothing looks as good as a freshly waxed car, so what are you waiting for?
2. find something you like and stick with it

if you like your process and the results, stick with it and ignore the noise and insta posts with perfect paint reflecting angels in the clouds.

 

[buster]

This guy hits both of these products with about 4 or 5 different soap/cleaners.

 

[demarpaint]

Same here. Nice thing about clay is that can't remove clearcoat.

I have no problem using clay, when needed. IMO using a cleaner wax, polish, compound, or anything that can mess with the clear coat is not good for the clear coat over the long haul. I read about "paint correction" and people that do it once or twice a year, even if it is not needed, bad move. If the paint needs "correction," then fine do it. Otherwise wash the car and layer on another coat of your favorite product. Clay as needed. Your clear coat will thank you.

 

[buster]

I have no problem using clay, when needed. IMO using a cleaner wax, polish, compound, or anything that can mess with the clear coat is not good for the clear coat over the long haul. I read about "paint correction" and people that do it once or twice a year, even if it is not needed, bad move. If the paint needs "correction," then fine do it. Otherwise wash the car and layer on another coat of your favorite product. Clay as needed. Your clear coat will thank you.

I feel the same. People tend to overdo it. I can relate as these products can tempt you into trying them lol.

For me, I want to start with a clean slate and with proper maintenance, should rarely need to polish. Maybe every 2 years or so depending on the conditions it's exposed to and environment etc.

In that last video I posted, you can see how durable some of these sealants actually are.

 

[demarpaint]

I feel the same. People tend to overdo it. I can relate as these products can tempt you into trying them lol.

For me, I want to start with a clean slate and with proper maintenance, should rarely need to polish. Maybe every 2 years or so depending on the conditions it's exposed to and environment etc.

In that last video I posted, you can see how durable some of these sealants actually are.

Exactly. They're constantly coming out with new products. They have to in order to stay in business. Many are expensive gimmicks with good marketing behind them to lure in the buyer. I have a few bottles I call gimmicky garbage that I got suckered into. LOL I won't name them, scattered about these threads I mentioned a few disappointments I had. There's a pretty large population of car enthusiasts willing to try the latest and greatest searching for that miracle product, and these companies are ready to take their money.