If your only concern is the AC and you aren't worried about the airflow to the radiator, another option may be to put the cooler between the radiator and the condenser if there's a gap between them. Obviously the radiator's cooling will still be affected somewhat, but the AC shouldn't be affected much compared to putting the cooler in front of the condenser. Still best to use a remote mount cooler if possible though, that way you are adding cooling capacity without affecting the AC condenser or radiator cooling at all, so better all the way around. Much lower trans temps and maybe slightly lower engine temps from the transmission oil being cooled by its own cooler instead of dumping its heat into the coolant.
Remote mount trans coolers?
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I would be concerned a little more about flow having lines that long. Honda AT Pumps generally aren't on the strong side, so you might end up with lower pressures and flow than what you might want. Cure one problem and cause another.
Yeah I thought about that too, good point. That's why I decided to use 1/2 inch copper pipes and 10AN hose to decrease the flow resistance as much as possible. The cooler system doesn't seem to be designed for a whole lot of flow though, so I doubt that the restriction will be my cooler lines. The passage in the trans that goes from the cooler supply port to the converter is quite small and hard to blow through, some of the ports inside the trans that the fluid must flow through to get to the cooler only have an inside diameter of about 1/8 of an inch. The cooler in the radiator was pretty hard to blow through also if I remember correctly.
What would the symptoms of inadequate cooler flow be? The only 2 that I can think of would be excessively high fluid temp out of the torque converter when unlocked and under load and a higher than normal temp drop across the cooler. Anything else? Thanks
I have an update. I finished installing the cooler and it seems to work pretty well. When cruising down the highway with the converter unlocked the trans heated up to about 150 degrees, once I locked the converter it was down to 140 in a few minutes. About the highest temp I saw when sitting in traffic for about 10 minutes was about 165, and that was mashing it light to light with no lockup trying to heat it up. No brake torque launches or anything, but I was pushing it pretty hard. I will report back once I drive it around a bit more, but so far so good
Quick question. Before I moved the cooler to the back, I had a remote oil filter mount with a Wix oil filter on it to help keep the transmission fluid clean since these transmissions don't have a real filter from the factory, they just have an internal screen. When I installed this cooler, I did not reinstall my external filter because I was concerned about flow restriction and I wasn't sure if this setup would work well. I also felt that the filter wasn't really necessary since I change the fluid every year.
Now that I know this setup works well and that the flow restriction isn't a problem (at least as far as temps go), should I add that filter back? I would like to have a decent filter to catch the smaller particles, but I am concerned about adding restriction by reinstalling that filter and wondering whether I would be doing more harm than good. Thanks in advance!
Now that I know this setup works well and that the flow restriction isn't a problem (at least as far as temps go), should I add that filter back? I would like to have a decent filter to catch the smaller particles, but I am concerned about adding restriction by reinstalling that filter and wondering whether I would be doing more harm than good. Thanks in advance!
Thank you! So you don't think a filter would help reduce wear on the pump, bearings, gears, etc by removing abrasive particles? I would think it would, but I'm no expert.
You are absolutely correct in suggesting in affirmation of the bold in above , there is no doubt about it and I'm not suggesting otherwise in general .
However , it is the 'wrong' positioning within oil flow circuit of the proposed external filter in question (after Torque Converter assembly and before cooler intake , no ?) as there isn't any contacting components such as gear pairs , bearing sets etc downstream of the flow circuit returning to oil sump compartment that this external filter would protect , other than retaining some abrasive contaminants if any, from depositing into the oil sump .
To be meaningful and effective , the suggested filter should have been designed into and provided (by transmission OEMs ) at transmission oil pump outlet protecting abrasive particles ,if any, from entering into and destroying :
a )Gearing pairs and bearing sets within the gear train assemblies and control valve system in Circuit 1 (of 2) ; and
b )Bearing sets within the Torque Converter assembly in Circuit 2 (of 2) .
Heck, the transmission OEM hasn't appropriately provided this 'proper design and construction' per se !
Evidence and user experience suggests OEMs' are right in making the judgement that no shortening of transmission longevity would arise out of this 'design inadequacy or design flaw' .
(Read : The test of the pudding is in the eating , not hypothesis or theories ) .
Note: Oil Circuit 3 through Pump Pressure Relief Valve system has not been considered as there isn't any contacting components in the Circuit for mechanical abrasion wear to occur .
Just my 2 cents .
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Thank you for the detailed explanation! I agree that in a perfect world the filter would be on the outlet of the pump for the reasons you stated. However, since there is no way I could do that, the best I could do is install a filter in the cooler lines. Not perfect, but obviously better than no filtration at all. It would still help protect the transmission's internal parts by catching the particles that would otherwise be dumped right back into the sump and go through the system over and over again and cause more and more wear.
My only concern is that I don't want to restrict the flow any more than I already did by installing a filter. Then again I have no reason to believe that the flow is restricted at all since the temp of the fluid coming out of the converter never rises excessively under load and both lines going to the cooler are hot. The return is obviously cooler than the supply when the cooler's fan is running, but there is clearly flow. Do you think adding an engine oil filter would significantly increase the restriction in the system? As someone else said, I don't want to solve one problem only to create another. Thanks
Short answer : this marginal increase in restriction ( by say, 20 or 40 psi, unlikely though ) would not create another problem , in actual application .
Thank you. I don't expect that an engine oil filter would create a significant restriction since the engine flows several times more oil through it than the trans does without issue, probably a few PSI at most. So would your suggestion be to reinstall the filter for maximum longevity of the transmission?
To the OP , how do you plan to control / cycle the fan ?
I just ran the wires right to the battery (I moved it to the trunk) as a test because I didn't have time to wire it correctly and I wanted to see how it would work since I have been very busy and haven't had time to wire it properly yet. But I am going to wire it to a switch with a relay connected to ignition positive so I can turn it on and off whenever I want and it shuts off when the key is off even if the switch is left on. I will pretty much turn the fan on when in traffic and turn it off when driving down the highway, at least in the summer. Probably won't need to use it much in the winter unless I am towing. Wiring it to a temp switch would be cool, but most of the temp switches on the market turn the fan on at 180 and I don't want my trans getting that hot before the fan comes on. Not that I think 180 will hurt it, but it doesn't need to get that hot. An adjustable electronic fan controller would be cool, but also expensive and unnecessary for my purposes.
I would if I had already owned the parts and felt messy with storage to leave it unused , or had down-graded recommended Dexton III'ish ATF (such as Toyota T IV application ) to LV/ULV of KV40*C of 22-30 , or very harsh application etc .
I won't for it requires real 'effort' on my part , with a bit of $$ in a typical Asian vehicle .
Having said this , I'm unaware of your vehicle/transmission model and ATF grade recommended vs actual in use .
Thanks. I guess I will reinstall it eventually then, I have it so why not.
What exactly will happen if the cooler flow is restricted? Let‘s say the cooler circuit is completely plugged and no fluid could get through it. Is there some type of bypass valve in the transmission to allow fluid to bypass the cooler if it’s restricted or will the fluid just sit in the converter and burn? I know that excessive restriction can cause high pressure in the converter, forcing it into the crankshaft and ruining the thrust bearings. I have heard of cases of repeat thrust bearing failure from a restricted cooler or lines for that reason, but I heard that some transmissions have built in bypass valves to prevent this. Thanks
Wow , very tough question to respond without oil flow circuit diagram and operating parameters ....... never mind .
Referencing your proposed setup , in the unusual and unlikely event of the external filter element in question is being severely and completely blocked raising (external) filter supply pressure higher and higher continuously ..... until or related to :
a )Filter (external) bypass pressure valve is not provided , (or adequately seized/jammed if provided) ; AND
b )Abnormal severe oil seal leakages or oil circuit joints within Transmission/Torque Converter assemblies , upstream of restriction point; or
Note :These seals are designed for working pressures up to 2 thousand psi , whilst transmission mainline pressure is typically 50 - 80ish psi . Go figure .
c )Abnormal drop in oil supply pressure ahead of restriction point (filter) due to malfunctioning of ;
1 )pump or ;
2 )pump outlet relief valve (typically provided ) i.e spring within is completely broken up into pieces or ;
3 )transmission system/mainline pressure relief valve (typically provided or built in ) i.e spring within is completely broken up into pieces .
Pressure controlled bypass valve after Torque Converter outlet ?? ...... typically NO as there isn't supposed to exist a 'filter' downstream ;
Note :Temperature controlled bypass valve after Torque Converter outlet ,which has no role in our scope of discussion ??? .......
may or may not be present .
Having said this however, upstream of Torque Converter assembly or converter INLET , there are two separate pressure controlled relief/bypass valve typically provided , namely :
a )Pump outlet pressure relief valve ; and
b )Transmission mainline/system pressure relief valve in between Torque Converter Inlet and Pump relief valve .
No.
When restricted , upstream pressure in torque converter or transmission will keep rising continuously until such scenarios where gear train/converter seals or circuit joints eventually breaks and leaks , under normal/abnormal pump supply pressure .
Yes .
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My Tacoma has the tow package. Comes with a small external. My wife’s 19 Pilot doesn’t have an external on but I do plane on installing one, factory cooler.
That's a good idea. The OEM cooler looks pretty small from the pictures I found online though, so getting a bigger aftermarket cooler wouldn't be a bad idea if you plan to tow much.
The Tacoma I haven’t touched. The Honda doesn’t have lines going to the radiator. Even a small factory one should help.
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