Im sorry but if your stupid enough to point a loaded weapon at yourself Im not saying you deserve to get shot but you needed to be more careful. But still if there wasnt someone behind the weapon it shouldnt fire.
Remington 700 series bolt action rifles ARE UNSAFE
- Thread starter JimPghPA
- Start date
- Status
I have a Weatherby MK V made in 1961 and has less than 250 rounds through it it is a beautiful rifle and accurate. They go for good $$$ on the auction sites. I would just as soon have a Remmington 700 rifle . In fact I am thinking of selling it as It sucks as a bench rest rifle as it is a light barrel and more than 3 shots hurts. It is great for it intended purpose though ,,,hunting.
Here's some of Remington's rebuttals to CNBC's show. See videos in upper right corner of the main page. 14 dots represents 14 short videos.
http://www.remington700.tv/#/home
http://www.remington700.tv/#/home
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
No gun in the world should fire when the safety is switched from ON to OFF. A safety is NOT designed to act like a "second trigger". If the safety acts like a second trigger then the gun is obviously defective.
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that. The point is the lack of safe handling by the operators that have accidentally shot themselves or others. You don't point a gun at anything you are not willing to destroy if it is loaded or unloaded, on "safe", etc.
No gun in the world should fire when the safety is switched from ON to OFF. A safety is NOT designed to act like a "second trigger". If the safety acts like a second trigger then the gun is obviously defective.
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that. The point is the lack of safe handling by the operators that have accidentally shot themselves or others. You don't point a gun at anything you are not willing to destroy if it is loaded or unloaded, on "safe", etc.
Originally Posted By: tom slick
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
No gun in the world should fire when the safety is switched from ON to OFF. A safety is NOT designed to act like a "second trigger". If the safety acts like a second trigger then the gun is obviously defective.
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that. The point is the lack of safe handling by the operators that have accidentally shot themselves or others. You don't point a gun at anything you are not willing to destroy if it is loaded or unloaded, on "safe", etc.
Of course ... I'm not saying people should not abide by safe gun handling procedures and put full trust into the safety mechanism.
But even if they do use safe gun handling procedures at all times, a gun should NOT have a design that could possibly allow it to fire when the safety is moved. That would be like a car going wide open throttle in gear when the parking brake is released ... make sure the car is always pointed in a safe direction before releasing the parking brake.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
No gun in the world should fire when the safety is switched from ON to OFF. A safety is NOT designed to act like a "second trigger". If the safety acts like a second trigger then the gun is obviously defective.
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that. The point is the lack of safe handling by the operators that have accidentally shot themselves or others. You don't point a gun at anything you are not willing to destroy if it is loaded or unloaded, on "safe", etc.
Of course ... I'm not saying people should not abide by safe gun handling procedures and put full trust into the safety mechanism.
But even if they do use safe gun handling procedures at all times, a gun should NOT have a design that could possibly allow it to fire when the safety is moved. That would be like a car going wide open throttle in gear when the parking brake is released ... make sure the car is always pointed in a safe direction before releasing the parking brake.
Or tailgating since there is antilock brakes and that should allow the car to stop shorter.
If ever gun in the world was handled per all the safety rules, then there would be no need for any of them to have a safety. Isn't gonna happen ... humans are involved.
If Remington was smart - and maybe they did do this - every person who contacted them about a AD should have had that gun shipped to Remington free of charge for an detailed analysis. It's likely that some of those guns were manufactured wrong or adjusted wrong at the factory, and some may have been monkeyed with by the owner of unqualified gunsmith. I'd have to believe that Remington looked deep into this issue and into all and every report of an AD.
If Remington was smart - and maybe they did do this - every person who contacted them about a AD should have had that gun shipped to Remington free of charge for an detailed analysis. It's likely that some of those guns were manufactured wrong or adjusted wrong at the factory, and some may have been monkeyed with by the owner of unqualified gunsmith. I'd have to believe that Remington looked deep into this issue and into all and every report of an AD.
BTW -- Is there anyone here familiar with the Remington 700 trigger mechanism? If I removed the stock on my 700 to expose the trigger assembly, can I tell by looking at the trigger mechanism if someone has modified or adjusted it? My 700 is 1967 vintage, and I acquired it used with no history of it's previous ownership.
This is interesting:
http://www.rifflawfirm.com/areas/pdf/remington4.pdf
A memo from Remington talking about using the "tricking" procedure to find guns that might be susceptible to an AD when moving the safety from on to off.
http://www.rifflawfirm.com/areas/pdf/remington.pdf
Here's the actual patent for the trigger mechanism:
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/CNBC/Section.../Rem_Doc_05.pdf
http://www.rifflawfirm.com/areas/pdf/remington4.pdf
A memo from Remington talking about using the "tricking" procedure to find guns that might be susceptible to an AD when moving the safety from on to off.
http://www.rifflawfirm.com/areas/pdf/remington.pdf
Here's the actual patent for the trigger mechanism:
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/CNBC/Section.../Rem_Doc_05.pdf
Here's a letter from Remington to CBS News back in 2001 about the Gus Barber accident in Montana.
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/statement.pdf
CBS New page from 2001:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/02/07/eveningnews/main270170.shtml
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/statement.pdf
CBS New page from 2001:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/02/07/eveningnews/main270170.shtml
Remington stated that the fire control assembly was severely rusted and tampered with. NO rebuttal was given to this statement.
I think that the condition of these rifles has a LOT to do with these malfunctions, but it is NEVER brought up by the "press".
I think that the condition of these rifles has a LOT to do with these malfunctions, but it is NEVER brought up by the "press".
http://nranews.com/#/nranews
Click on the "Top Stories" button, and look for the video (near top of the list) entitled:
"VP of Remington Defense Responds to CNBC Report"
Click on the "Top Stories" button, and look for the video (near top of the list) entitled:
"VP of Remington Defense Responds to CNBC Report"
I have had this happen to me personally to me on an older Remington 700 in 25-06. I actually was getting ready to shoot a deer and pushed the saftey off and the rifle fired. I never touched the trigger. I sent it back to Remington and they fixed it free of charge.
Originally Posted By: nwjones18
I have had this happen to me personally to me on an older Remington 700 in 25-06. I actually was getting ready to shoot a deer and pushed the saftey off and the rifle fired. I never touched the trigger. I sent it back to Remington and they fixed it free of charge.
What was the fix? ... just a trigger adjustment?
I have had this happen to me personally to me on an older Remington 700 in 25-06. I actually was getting ready to shoot a deer and pushed the saftey off and the rifle fired. I never touched the trigger. I sent it back to Remington and they fixed it free of charge.
What was the fix? ... just a trigger adjustment?
That's all they said they did, but the trigger actually was better than before I sent it. I ended up putting a Timney in it later and haven't had any more problems.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
BTW -- Is there anyone here familiar with the Remington 700 trigger mechanism? If I removed the stock on my 700 to expose the trigger assembly, can I tell by looking at the trigger mechanism if someone has modified or adjusted it? My 700 is 1967 vintage, and I acquired it used with no history of it's previous ownership.
On the ones I've seen of 80's vintage, the factory "sealed" the trigger group adjustment screw heads with what looks like fingernail polish/enamel. If there is nothing blocking the slots on the screw heads, the adjustments may have been tampered with.
BTW -- Is there anyone here familiar with the Remington 700 trigger mechanism? If I removed the stock on my 700 to expose the trigger assembly, can I tell by looking at the trigger mechanism if someone has modified or adjusted it? My 700 is 1967 vintage, and I acquired it used with no history of it's previous ownership.
On the ones I've seen of 80's vintage, the factory "sealed" the trigger group adjustment screw heads with what looks like fingernail polish/enamel. If there is nothing blocking the slots on the screw heads, the adjustments may have been tampered with.
Originally Posted By: pcoxe
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
BTW -- Is there anyone here familiar with the Remington 700 trigger mechanism? If I removed the stock on my 700 to expose the trigger assembly, can I tell by looking at the trigger mechanism if someone has modified or adjusted it? My 700 is 1967 vintage, and I acquired it used with no history of it's previous ownership.
On the ones I've seen of 80's vintage, the factory "sealed" the trigger group adjustment screw heads with what looks like fingernail polish/enamel. If there is nothing blocking the slots on the screw heads, the adjustments may have been tampered with.
Thanks for that info. I'll take a look and see if they have some kind of sealant on them.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
BTW -- Is there anyone here familiar with the Remington 700 trigger mechanism? If I removed the stock on my 700 to expose the trigger assembly, can I tell by looking at the trigger mechanism if someone has modified or adjusted it? My 700 is 1967 vintage, and I acquired it used with no history of it's previous ownership.
On the ones I've seen of 80's vintage, the factory "sealed" the trigger group adjustment screw heads with what looks like fingernail polish/enamel. If there is nothing blocking the slots on the screw heads, the adjustments may have been tampered with.
Thanks for that info. I'll take a look and see if they have some kind of sealant on them.
I watched the CNBC hour long show about the Remington 700 series rifles again. It is obvious that all Remington 700 series rifles and even the 600 series rifles should be equipped with the x mark pro trigger regardless of the type and or location of the safety.
If it does not have the x mark pro trigger it can go off anytime there is a live round chambered.
If it does not have the x mark pro trigger it can go off anytime there is a live round chambered.
Quote:
I watched the CNBC hour long show about the Remington 700 series rifles again.
Is this available online?
I watched the CNBC hour long show about the Remington 700 series rifles again.
Is this available online?
- Status
Similar threads
