Refreshing a Camry for an entitled old man

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994

They’ve got $7k to upgrade to a newer car? Then they’ve got $7k to fix up their current car. Don’t pay to fix up their car. Let the crybaby deal with it himself, and figure out another means of transportation for your kids.

THANK YOU; if you have the money to buy them a new car, you have the money to find alternative transportation for the kids. If they genuinely want the help and you genuinely want to help them, thats one thing. This entire situation sounds like an economic/business transaction - you're trying to find a reliable source of transportation for the kids and you concluded the inlaws are the cheapest route. Like someone else said, you can NEVER force help on someone if they don't want it, and it usually makes for more problems. I've never understood people that act that way - they let their pride get in the way of common sense, but the best thing to do is walk away IMO, especially if there is any arguing or hostility involved.

 

[555]

That is a lot for an Elantra, haggle if possible. Buy the car and tell them you don't want them racking up miles on their own vehicle while doing a favor for you and you wouldn't feel right with the wear and tear caused by them being a huge help for your family. They could use it when chauffeuring your kids around and thus avoid extra miles on their car. It may be a little late for this strategy.

 

[Nick1994]

Also, used Hyundais don't have the 10 year/100k warranty, it gets down tuned to a 5 year/60k warranty.

 

[ecotourist]

I agree with a number of other posters who said not to just start replacing stuff. Find an experienced mechanic and do the hot start repair. Do the necessary maintenance (timing belts etc). Then let them drive it; they obviously like what they have and it should last a very long time. And only use OEM parts or those recommended by your experienced mechanic. I had the water pump on my Volvo replaced 2 or 3 times before a different (and obviously better) Volvo repair specialist said to use only the OEM part - problem solved.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear

26. Anything I've missed?

Front lower control arms, outer tie rods, sway bar links, and wheel bearing/ hub assemblies.

 

[PandaBear]

Thanks for all the suggestions and advice. My father in law grew up in a very well off family (think if you have a couple live in maids in the house) but the family fortune was long gone due to bad investment and unfortunate events. The inlaws' home was foreclosed a couple years ago and my wife and I bought them a townhouse to live near us, so they can be closer to the grand children (3 and 6) and help pickup and drop off kids. We understand that they have their own lives and we never asked them to help us in any other ways. If they have millions and want to buy a new $30k car I wouldn't mind contributing that $8k, but that $7k they wanted to pay to "upgrade" is probably what they have in cash savings, so throwing it away just because they aren't used to downgrading is just "entitled". There are other snowflake like behaviors I wouldn't mention out of respect, but their son storm out of thanksgiving gathering almost every other year because he had enough of them. My mother in law is reasonable, and I am cool with her not wanting a black interior or small window visibility. It is my father in law that hijacked the decision of "to heck with black interior and warranty, I want my SoftTex seat and V6". So I'll call a spade a spade. Other people not wanting to downgrade doesn't make them entitled, and I know older people are hard to change (my dad included).

Originally Posted By: Nick1994

Also, used Hyundais don't have the 10 year/100k warranty, it gets down tuned to a 5 year/60k warranty.

Oh boy, only the 1st buyer huh? Then that's not going to work. So it looks like I'll just replace with OEM what is broken and likely to be broken then. Now what about a more reasonable list of OEM like: 1) starter plunger, contacts set 2) ignition coil (my experience is they only last about 200k on distributor system, what about coil over plug?) 3) fix all leaky gasket if possible 4) coolant hose (Gate?) and radiator cap (OEM), leave the radiator until it is cracked 5) timing belt kit (Aisin, I haven't seen Mitsuboshi for a while) 6) Fuel pump (Denso ok? or OEM only?) and pressure regulator (OEM) (I think they are known weak point) 7) thermostat (OEM) 8) spark plug wires (OEM) 9) O2 sensors (Denso or NTK) 10) IACV (OEM, known weak spot and common hot start issues) 11) PCV (OEM, cheap anyways) 12) All fluid as needed of course Given the cars will be driven mainly local short miles, I'll leave alone: 1) alternator (age with miles not with year?) 2) suspensions (struts was worn and replaced already) 3) CV shafts (only if boot cracked, then OEM) 4) power steering (as needed if leak) 5) radiator (as needed if leak) 6) EGR (not starting issues if I understand how it works) 7) All other sensors (as needed if worn out) Does this list sounds better?

 

[Tdbo]

The answer is simple. Stay out of it. If you are concerned for your kid's safety, arrange alternate transportation. Two things have already been stated that I agree with: 1. If you want to help, run the Camry to the point that its malfunction can by duplicated in front of an appropriate mechanic. Have them correct the issue. 2. Judging by the condition of the Impala that I just rented from Hertz, purchasing a '16 Elantra with 82 K from them is nuts. Paying $8.2K for it is flat out crazy.

 

[mk378]

Wow all of these lists, all that money that could be spent on taxi fare or something to get away from this problem. A new starter isn't going to help when it cranks but won't start. Coil over plugs are independent of each other -- a bad one will have you running on 5 cylinders, but still running (and why did you list "spark plug wires" when it is COP?) Bottom line is don't replace any part unless / until it is proven faulty or due for it on a maintenance schedule. I'm real curious why Grandma can usually get the car started but Grandpa can't. It suggests the problem may not even be the car itself. Have you tried to start it yourself? Maybe he is doing something dumb like pumping the gas pedal and flooring it. That was how to start cars in the 1950's but not now. An IACV stuck closed would make you have to "feather" the gas to get started and maybe to stay running, until it comes unstuck. Really I would want some time with this car alone to see what it is really doing. Also of note that no one seems to have noticed is that this engine does not have self-adjusting valve lifters. Valves that have become too tight due to wear will cause hard starting and rough idling.

 

[pandus13]

PandaBear, One father, son, SIL to another: -find alternative means of SAFE transportation for your dear kids; 20 years old cheaply maintained car with elderly drivers is not one! especially in the land of SUV, Minivans, Pickup trucks and Full-size cars , where you live (Sillicon Valley) inquire at your school(s); I bet the teachers/helpers know somebody who uses the same route, or who could use the money. I have a babysitter, and pay her 1.5 market rate in cash, to keep her around for the 1 day/week we need her -fix in-laws car to movable stage; buy similar if/when un-fixable buy them a nice dinner with the money you save. keep out of the regular family drama; remember, they are taller then you....also, some of the WWII generation grew-up generation, have a lot of hidden problems.... P.S. re: spendy elders... My spendy step-father, while gold-hearted, leaved my saving-oriented mom in a mess... both financially and will/inheritance....because of doing things his way only

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994

They’ve got $7k to upgrade to a newer car? Then they’ve got $7k to fix up their current car. Don’t pay to fix up their car. Let the crybaby deal with it himself, and figure out another means of transportation for your kids.

Yeah, exactly, tell him to grow up, and wait a minute...who is the crybaby, again? The one driving the grandkid to school every day? Maybe if he didn't have to shuttle the grandkid around every day, he wouldn't need to worry as much about his car. But when someone is helping you out with the driving, telling them that their car is inadequate isn't going to endear you to them... If I was driving YOUR kid around every day, and you didn't like my car, and kept hounding me about it, then I would simply stop helping YOU out...and let you know that you're free to arrange alternative transportation. Problem solved.

 

[RichardS]

You, sir, are a better person than I. He'd be getting a membership to AAA in a black bag, with black tissue paper, and a big black balloon.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Astro14

Yeah, exactly, tell him to grow up, and wait a minute...who is the crybaby, again? The one driving the grandkid to school every day? Maybe if he didn't have to shuttle the grandkid around every day, he wouldn't need to worry as much about his car. But when someone is helping you out with the driving, telling them that their car is inadequate isn't going to endear you to them... If I was driving YOUR kid around every day, and you didn't like my car, and kept hounding me about it, then I would simply stop helping YOU out...and let you know that you're free to arrange alternative transportation. Problem solved.

I want to keep the finance part of the spoken contract out of this but since you bought it up, let me rephrase what I have written earlier: 1. I bought a townhouse for them to live in for free (market rent is around $3-4k a month), on the condition that they'll help watch the kids before pre-school age, and pickup, drop off from school after preschool age. They were burried in debt and almost got foreclosed on their home. Taking our offer saved them from that and they are now able to rent out their home and get a net $1k a month income to live on. Sounds like I've done my part as a good son in law don't you think? 2. They drive their car the way they want, and I don't really care yet if they are late (they can walk to school it is only 0.9 miles from their home). What I do not want, which happens about once a week, is that they are stranded in odd location and need me to get involved when I am at work or commuting. Places include grocery store parking lot, school parking lot, in front of my driveway, in front of my neighbor's driveway (they like to just park in the middle of odd places and then the car can't start). 3. I offered to help, they accepted the idea initially, FIL keep upping the spec of the car he wants. It went from 8k to 15k to 18k to 20k to eventually around 27k. So it looks like we are in agreement that we should just fix the Camry. The only sad part to this is FIL thinks check engine light is to be ignored and will go away if you ignore them long enough. 4. The reason I offer to help is, 10 years ago I have lots of free time to diagnose cars and I was usually pretty good at it. Now I do not have that time, and he still don't get that my time is no longer free. So he call me all the time asking for suggestion. I don't want to do that anymore for the next 15 years. He was the one keep hounding me about it and I was the one trying to throw money to make it go away.

 

[02SE]

Why can't your kids walk to and from School? Are kids not capable of walking anymore? When I was in school, I walked every day. So did all the other kids. Now, I occasionally drive by the schools I attended, and cars are lined up around the schools, when either picking up or dropping off kids. Nothing has changed as far as traffic or housing density.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: 02SE

Why can't your kids walk to and from School? Are kids not capable of walking anymore? When I was in school, I walked every day. So did all the other kids. Now, I occasionally drive by the schools I attended, and cars are lined up around the schools, when either picking up or dropping off kids. Nothing has changed as far as traffic or housing density.

They can, usually what happen is the inlaws like to drive and then the car is stranded. If they don't have a car they can walk. But remember kids are 3 and 6 right now.

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear

Originally Posted By: 02SE

Why can't your kids walk to and from School? Are kids not capable of walking anymore? When I was in school, I walked every day. So did all the other kids. Now, I occasionally drive by the schools I attended, and cars are lined up around the schools, when either picking up or dropping off kids. Nothing has changed as far as traffic or housing density.

They can, usually what happen is the inlaws like to drive and then the car is stranded. If they don't have a car they can walk. But remember kids are 3 and 6 right now.

02SE, elderly parents, have.... strange reactions: I saved 2 kids at the pool on 2 occasions from drowning while the granparents where just next to them and granmas where yelling "pick the kid up!" Also, there is now something called nossy neighbors who will call CPS (Child Protection Services) when they dreamed about you living the kids alone. and traffic. and hurried/not paying attention driving parents/grandparents. and crazy people.(my sister was almost snatched, and that was 45 years ago) For the record, I walked to all my schools no matter: rain, snow, sleet, construction, bad areas, multiple public transportation devices, distance. But I will not get my kids trough that!

 

[Tosh]

Take the Camry to Japanese Beetle in Sunnyvale: They are totally honest and will tell you what the problem might be (if you're handy), as they are not looking for extra spendy work. Great guys!

 

[mk378]

Parking in odd places, "fender benders"... Do you really want your kids in any car with them? Maybe they should walk the kids to and from school and do their shopping trips at times when the kids are in someone else's care. And if the car breaks down on them they can walk, bus, tow truck, taxi etc. Your kids aren't involved so neither need be you. I would consider someone giving me a 3 year old car that always starts to be a welcome "upgrade" over a 20 year old one that doesn't always start.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear

Originally Posted By: Astro14

Yeah, exactly, tell him to grow up, and wait a minute...who is the crybaby, again? The one driving the grandkid to school every day? Maybe if he didn't have to shuttle the grandkid around every day, he wouldn't need to worry as much about his car. But when someone is helping you out with the driving, telling them that their car is inadequate isn't going to endear you to them... If I was driving YOUR kid around every day, and you didn't like my car, and kept hounding me about it, then I would simply stop helping YOU out...and let you know that you're free to arrange alternative transportation. Problem solved.

I want to keep the finance part of the spoken contract out of this but since you bought it up, let me rephrase what I have written earlier: 1. I bought a townhouse for them to live in for free (market rent is around $3-4k a month), on the condition that they'll help watch the kids before pre-school age, and pickup, drop off from school after preschool age. They were burried in debt and almost got foreclosed on their home. Taking our offer saved them from that and they are now able to rent out their home and get a net $1k a month income to live on. Sounds like I've done my part as a good son in law don't you think? 2. They drive their car the way they want, and I don't really care yet if they are late (they can walk to school it is only 0.9 miles from their home). What I do not want, which happens about once a week, is that they are stranded in odd location and need me to get involved when I am at work or commuting. Places include grocery store parking lot, school parking lot, in front of my driveway, in front of my neighbor's driveway (they like to just park in the middle of odd places and then the car can't start). 3. I offered to help, they accepted the idea initially, FIL keep upping the spec of the car he wants. It went from 8k to 15k to 18k to 20k to eventually around 27k. So it looks like we are in agreement that we should just fix the Camry. The only sad part to this is FIL thinks check engine light is to be ignored and will go away if you ignore them long enough. 4. The reason I offer to help is, 10 years ago I have lots of free time to diagnose cars and I was usually pretty good at it. Now I do not have that time, and he still don't get that my time is no longer free. So he call me all the time asking for suggestion. I don't want to do that anymore for the next 15 years. He was the one keep hounding me about it and I was the one trying to throw money to make it go away.

The finance part is critical to your justification of labeling your FIL as "entitled". I appreciate you explaining everything. As originally posted; he was driving your daughter, and you were wanting him to get a better car. Now, understanding the degree of support you provide, and his reaction to it, adds both substantial complexity to the situation as well as supporting your "entitled" description. I think you're stuck... Look, he may be dependent on you, financially, but even so, unless you're willing to cut him off, or just outright buy him a new car, he's going to continue to insist on his own priorities for both vehicle and spending. Much the way a teenager will insist that a parent, on whom they're dependent, must respect their decisions and priorities. That's a discussion in your future, by the way, and establishing boundaries and expectations clearly and early will help you navigate those relationship shoals with your daughter. But because your expectations and boundaries weren't clear with your FIL, even though you generously (very generously) provided him support, he will continue to be unwilling to respect your priorities and ideas... Tough situation. But please, don't just throw parts on this car. Every part, on every car ever built, has some greater than zero probability of failure, but that doesn't make it wise to replace every part (that's known as "buying a new car"). Get it diagnosed. Or get another car.

 

[pandus13]

[off-topic] Yay, we finally got Astro-The Teacher. P.S. still think Astro name is from the Jetsons kid looking and dreaming at the stars..... P.S.2 : sorry for having so many replies in this thread, but it hits so close to home... I'm a SIL too..... [/off-topic]

 

[fdcg27]

Hire a car service to take your kids to and from school. Let your nickel millionaire FIL continue driving his "top of the line" POS beater car. Camrys were cheap when that one was new and they remain cheap today. Your story is a good reminder that the age of entitlement didn't begin with those born in the last thirty years or so. Many born well before that exhibit the same lack of personal responsibility as well as the same champagne tastes on a beer budget, especially when they can get someone else to pay for the bubbly. How is anyone going to reach their older years unable to come up with enough money to support themselves? I would continue working to pay my own way long before I'd expect a SIL to pay my bills for me.