Redline Water Wetter and Royal Purple Purple Ice

[Shannow]

Like I said before, it doesn't drop coolant temperature, but metal temperature.

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=74&pcid=10

Quote:

* Superior heat transfer properties compared to glycol-based antifreeze

* Improves heat transfer and reduces cylinder head temperature

* Does not lower cooling system below the thermostatically-controlled temperature

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
When installed backward, the engine thermostat will still function perfectly per design only the coolant flow is now reversed.



Correction: When installed backward, the engine thermostat will still function per design if only the coolant flow was reversed. Which it is, from the thermostat's perspective if used on the inlet side of the engine, effectively regulating the inlet coolant temp vs. the outlet coolant temp.

It will work as designed sitting on my shelf. It will open if ambient temp reaches its action threshold.

Now whether it serves a productive purpose, that's another story.

 

[Shannow]

I've seen one installed backwards work correctly.

Overheated until it opened, and once flowing, the flow over the bulb allowed it to regulate coolant temperature as per design.

However, it was one of the old designs with the little "tickler" air bleed that let a small amount of coolant through at all times.

 

[Gary Allan]

I wondered why they bothered to put the little rattle thingie in there. Why not just use a smaller hole

I imagine there's some good reason for it. I had to drill one in the inlet stat. Otherwise I had to break a connection on the bypass hoses to fill the thing.

 

[Shannow]

the rattler was described to me as breaking the surface tension of the bubble, allowing a better purge.

The commercial thermostat kit had a 3 way T in the bypass/return line that allowed filling and purging behind the stat.

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
When installed backward, the engine thermostat will still function perfectly per design only the coolant flow is now reversed
.

I didn't think you could possibly post anything nuttier than you already have, but then you just did it. Amazing.



What really amazing is you still don't understand and I have to point out the technical aspect of every thing that I have said. When the coolant in the radiator is about to boil over the backward thermostat will open and the water pump is now pumping the coolant in opposite direction that the thermostat was designed for. The thermostat is still operating per design. The coolant flow is still from the engine to the radiator but it is now in reverse with respect to the thermostat. Get it now???? Sheeeshhhh!!!!

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
When installed backward, the engine thermostat will still function perfectly per design only the coolant flow is now reversed.



Correction: When installed backward, the engine thermostat will still function per design if only the coolant flow was reversed. Which it is, from the thermostat's perspective if used on the inlet side of the engine, effectively regulating the inlet coolant temp vs. the outlet coolant temp.

It will work as designed sitting on my shelf. It will open if ambient temp reaches its action threshold.

Now whether it serves a productive purpose, that's another story.


Correction: the thermostat is actuated by temperature not coolant flow direction (i.e. work as designed sitting on your shelf). This happens when the coolant in the radiator is approaching the boiling point which is higher than any thermostat setting and this will open the thermostat. Also at this point, the coolant temperature on either side of the thermostat is higher than the thermostat setting so the thermostat will remain open until the radiator coolant temperature drops below it setting.

 

[Shannow]

And the thermostat will control flow (and thus heat rejection) to within its control range.

That's what CONTROL systems do.

Is there a band of control on your Honeywell thermostats, or are the rock solid at regulating temperature ?

BTW, you still haven't told me what you get out of your (incorrect) version of the system.

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
azsynthetic, exactly what do you get out of you crazy description of automotive thermostats ?

You can't be that wrong, and that persistent without your description being linked to some tangible benefit that requires such a view.



I do this all the time at work to teach young engineers to get to the detail of system design. It is not a crazy description of an engine thermostat but actually is the "exact" description of it. This is why I refer you to the patent description of an engine thermostat. I was on the patent review board at Honeywell and I can tell you that most engineers do not know how to describe the actual mechanic of a device. They have the general concept but very little experience with technical writing. We are talking about an engine thermostat and not a complete engine cooling system.

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
And the thermostat will control flow (and thus heat rejection) to within its control range.

That's what CONTROL systems do.

Is there a band of control on your Honeywell thermostats, or are the rock solid at regulating temperature ?

BTW, you still haven't told me what you get out of your (incorrect) version of the system.


You are slowly getting it. We are talking about just the thermostat and not the whole cooling system. You can argue that the thermostat is used to control the temperature of the cabin or to decrease emission or to control the engine temperature but these are system level functions that comprise of many parts working together. The engine thermostat only has one simple function and that is, well I have already told you.....

 

[Shannow]

Your young engineers should demand a refund.

My systems send several million horsepower around various power and heat exchange loops, and as such, I have half an idea as to which elements control system perfomance, and which systems limit system performance.

A regulating valve that responds to system temperature is a control device.

A heat exchanger provides the limits of such control.

You still haven't explained how your version of this one and only unique "thermostat" that really isn't (in your words) a thermostat materially benefits you.

Is it the pitch that you use to sell the stuff ?

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

A regulating valve that responds to system temperature is a control device.



That is correct, it controls the coolant flow to be precise. I benefit nothing with any thermostat since I don't run them in any of my vehicles here in Arizona.

 

[Shannow]

And controlling the fluid flow to a heat exchange in ambient air achieves exactly what, in relation to the fluid temperature ?

 

[azsynthetic]

It depends on what the fluid is used for. Are we done with engine thermostat and now over to fluid temperature in general?

 

[Shannow]

And Redline's quoted statement with regard to coolant temperatures, and thermostat control ?

Quote:
Does not lower cooling system below the thermostatically-controlled temperature


Guess they are clueless too ?

 

[azsynthetic]

Red Line does not make engine thermostat and you forgot the words "cooling system" in that quote. Have you asked Red Line what they meant by "thermostatically-controlled temperature"? Ask them what exactly is that temperature value?

 

[Gary Allan]

roundy-round ..and going nowhere.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
the rattler was described to me as breaking the surface tension of the bubble, allowing a better purge.

The commercial thermostat kit had a 3 way T in the bypass/return line that allowed filling and purging behind the stat.


I saved the vulnerability the screw cap and just have a composite mender. It's still no fun filling through a funnel into a 5/8 hose. Not that you do it so often ...except when you're dialing it in for inlet temp

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
When installed backward, the engine thermostat will still function perfectly per design only the coolant flow is now reversed
.

I didn't think you could possibly post anything nuttier than you already have, but then you just did it. Amazing.



What really amazing is you still don't understand and I have to point out the technical aspect of every thing that I have said. When the coolant in the radiator is about to boil over the backward thermostat will open and the water pump is now pumping the coolant in opposite direction that the thermostat was designed for. The thermostat is still operating per design. The coolant flow is still from the engine to the radiator but it is now in reverse with respect to the thermostat. Get it now???? Sheeeshhhh!!!!


What in the world are you talking about? If the coolant in the radiator every gets near boiling point, then the engine's coolant is several degrees hotter and would've already started boiling over. Coolant will be coming out of the engine the same way and out the radiator cap or reservoir. The backwards t-stat is either going to be forced open by coolant presssure or cracked open by heat conducting from the engine to the wax pellet, or most likely out the presure cap.

Coolant is not going to flow backwards into a hotter engine or downhill. You have to be joking.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
I've seen one installed backwards work correctly.

Overheated until it opened, and once flowing, the flow over the bulb allowed it to regulate coolant temperature as per design.

However, it was one of the old designs with the little "tickler" air bleed that let a small amount of coolant through at all times.


I'm thinking if the T-stat is in backwards the water pump and hot coolant might develop enough psid to crack the T-stat open enough to get some flow over the sensing bulb. The backwards T-stat would be now opening towards the radiator of course and the only thing to hold it shut is the T-stat's spring. Having a jiggle valve probably helped to warm up the bulb.

The important thing is the engine would probaly run hotter than nomal at least initially and the coolant would still flow in normal direction, contrary to what AZsynthetic says.