Project Farm tests coolant boosters/water wetters

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We need to lighten up and let science be science.
I'm happy to recognize actual scientific content and experiments that lead to valid conclusions. Science marketing demonstrations that aren't well designed should be called as such. (Maybe Gale Banks, but I would never assert that Amsoil would rely on the blurred line between marketing and science speak.) It does appear peer reviewed research is being done in the field. This particular paper has over 100 references:

Saeed Dinarvand, Amirmohammad Abbasi, Sogol Gharsi, A Review of the Applications of Nanofluids and Related Hybrid Variants in Flat Tube Car Radiators, Fluid Dynamics and Materials Processing, Volume 21, Issue 1, 2025, Pages 37-60, ISSN 1555-256X.

Maybe we buy PF a science direct subscription so that he can look over test methods used in peer reviewed space. Be critical of statistics. Be critical of politics. Be critical of "scientific" results and what they're actually telling you.
 
We need to lighten up and let science be science.
The issue as I see it is this...we have 3 levels of testing. 1) Broscience. "Bro, I used Rotella and my car loves it, it's way quieter...bro." 2) Typical YT/garage stuff that uses some good methodology but fall short (and makes some people's heads blow off) b/c it's not a 3) peer-reviewed journal sciencetific engineering study which for the masses isn't something easy to digest or understand. What 2 does works for many without the higher-level education required and gives some indications of performance. I fell under 2 here, his delta T test indicates to me at least that it's possible these wetter products can increase cooling system efficiency if you are pushing your car - I would make a reasonable asusmption the ambient temps are held constant for this even though he didn't call it out. There is a lot of 1 indicating this as well from track groups and folks that use their cars on the track but of course 1 is pretty worthless most of the time. Yes, I realize it's not under pressure beyond atmospheric. For that I'll spend $12 and don't need 3. I don't believe anywhere here I swear things are so based on 2, I'm a scientist, I get how this works and even being one, I don't require 3 to make a $12 decision nor does it decrease my intellegence. The comments folks make that are of a personal nature about PF and others that get discussed here are quite shocking to me "clown", "ignorant", etc. and trashing people like this b/c they aren't doing 3 is quite unprofessional and speaks volumes about those commenters' own personalities. And around we go on the 'tog.
 
The issue as I see it is this...we have 3 levels of testing. 1) Broscience. "Bro, I used Rotella and my car loves it, it's way quieter...bro." 2) Typical YT/garage stuff that uses some good methodology but fall short (and makes some people's heads blow off) b/c it's not a 3) peer-reviewed journal sciencetific engineering study which for the masses isn't something easy to digest or understand. What 2 does works for many without the higher-level education required and gives some indications of performance. I fell under 2 here, his delta T test indicates to me at least that it's possible these wetter products can increase cooling system efficiency if you are pushing your car - I would make a reasonable asusmption the ambient temps are held constant for this even though he didn't call it out. There is a lot of 1 indicating this as well from track groups and folks that use their cars on the track but of course 1 is pretty worthless most of the time. Yes, I realize it's not under pressure beyond atmospheric. For that I'll spend $12 and don't need 3. I don't believe anywhere here I swear things are so based on 2, I'm a scientist, I get how this works and even being one, I don't require 3 to make a $12 decision nor does it decrease my intellegence. The comments folks make that are of a personal nature about PF and others that get discussed here are quite shocking to me "clown", "ignorant", etc. and trashing people like this b/c they aren't doing 3 is quite unprofessional and speaks volumes about those commenters' own personalities. And around we go on the 'tog.
Just realize that $12 decision may actually increase your water pump wear scars and heat transfer...undetermined.
 
Remember back in posts #4 and #21 in this thread where you and I discussed it? You thought it made perfect sense and then I pointed out the construction of the water pump was relevant?

Admit it. You liked the video because at face value you felt it confirmed your own coolant concoction that is super necessary because of your demanding special track day application. So you figured the lubricity test was relevant, the sulfuric acid test was relevant, and that even the delta T setup was well done and actually told you what he told you it was telling you. You got science marketed to.

Bottom line is that only one of the coolant additives has a better wear scar test result than actual coolant. So if it really mattered that we not degrade the asserted important properties of coolant (see posts 25 and 28) then we'd just use...good coolant.
I don't believe I ever said that the lubricity test was important, I simply asked about it b/c it was confusing to me why he did it and suggested a possible reason. The comments here cleared that up that it was likely due to "water pump lubrication" property that many coolants tout and now seems unnecessary. The impact of these products on pH on a coolant that they are added to is relevent and clearly trying to figure out if they increase cooling capacity/heat trasnfer is what these products are sold/purported to do. Admit it? I have admittted it, I was interested in this test b/c I use a wetter product in a car where it could help/track use and the results seem to indicate they *MAY* be doing what they say. These products are v. popular for track use participants, not particualarly strange or controversial there but I really enjoyed your snarky "your own coolant concoction that is super necessary because of your demanding special track day application." I wish I could have collected back to back track log data with/without it, would be have been interesting. I'd say coolant at 240/trans at 260/oil at 280 F for 25-45 min sustanined is "demanding" by most standards around here.
 
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Just realize that $12 decision may actually increase your water pump wear scars and heat transfer...undetermined.
Well darn it, I guess that's why the MK7 VWs go through so many water pumps? I'm on #3! @Pablo - does your product have any testing associated with it to indicate the marketing that they decrease coolant temps?
Screenshot 2025-03-05 093329.webp
 
I wish I could have collected back to back track log data with/without it, would be have been interesting.
You should. that would be the pudding containing the proof. Hold track/atmospheric conditions constant. Make some heat input assumptions based on track times, fueling rates, etc., and you'd have some data applicable to your particular test case.
 
The issue as I see it is this...we have 3 levels of testing. 1) Broscience. "Bro, I used Rotella and my car loves it, it's way quieter...bro." 2) Typical YT/garage stuff that uses some good methodology but fall short (and makes some people's heads blow off) b/c it's not a 3) peer-reviewed journal sciencetific engineering study which for the masses isn't something easy to digest or understand. What 2 does works for many without the higher-level education required and gives some indications of performance. I fell under 2 here, his delta T test indicates to me at least that it's possible these wetter products can increase cooling system efficiency if you are pushing your car - I would make a reasonable asusmption the ambient temps are held constant for this even though he didn't call it out. There is a lot of 1 indicating this as well from track groups and folks that use their cars on the track but of course 1 is pretty worthless most of the time. Yes, I realize it's not under pressure beyond atmospheric. For that I'll spend $12 and don't need 3. I don't believe anywhere here I swear things are so based on 2, I'm a scientist, I get how this works and even being one, I don't require 3 to make a $12 decision nor does it decrease my intellegence. The comments folks make that are of a personal nature about PF and others that get discussed here are quite shocking to me "clown", "ignorant", etc. and trashing people like this b/c they aren't doing 3 is quite unprofessional and speaks volumes about those commenters' own personalities. And around we go on the 'tog.
Using a wear scar machine on coolant is almost less than Broscience. It's goofy beyond comprehension.

And yes he is a clown for that. But apparently people like the circus the machine generates, the thing screeches and smokes and you get... a number.

I'm sticking to my assertion that if he by some odd means thought that was a good idea, that speaks volumes.
 
The issue as I see it is this...we have 3 levels of testing. 1) Broscience. "Bro, I used Rotella and my car loves it, it's way quieter...bro." 2) Typical YT/garage stuff that uses some good methodology but fall short (and makes some people's heads blow off) b/c it's not a 3) peer-reviewed journal sciencetific engineering study which for the masses isn't something easy to digest or understand. What 2 does works for many without the higher-level education required and gives some indications of performance. I fell under 2 here, his delta T test indicates to me at least that it's possible these wetter products can increase cooling system efficiency if you are pushing your car - I would make a reasonable asusmption the ambient temps are held constant for this even though he didn't call it out. There is a lot of 1 indicating this as well from track groups and folks that use their cars on the track but of course 1 is pretty worthless most of the time. Yes, I realize it's not under pressure beyond atmospheric. For that I'll spend $12 and don't need 3. I don't believe anywhere here I swear things are so based on 2, I'm a scientist, I get how this works and even being one, I don't require 3 to make a $12 decision nor does it decrease my intellegence. The comments folks make that are of a personal nature about PF and others that get discussed here are quite shocking to me "clown", "ignorant", etc. and trashing people like this b/c they aren't doing 3 is quite unprofessional and speaks volumes about those commenters' own personalities. And around we go on the 'tog.
You guys missed my sarcasm
 
Well darn it, I guess that's why the MK7 VWs go through so many water pumps? I'm on #3! @Pablo - does your product have any testing associated with it to indicate the marketing that they decrease coolant temps?
View attachment 266508
No other testing than this:

1741199642838.webp


https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-dominator-coolant-boost-rdcb/?zo=515729
https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g2785.pdf


I was hoping PF would have run it to establish a possible correlation based on an inappropriate sample size and biased data. :cool: 🆒
 
No other testing than this:

View attachment 266545

https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-dominator-coolant-boost-rdcb/?zo=515729
https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g2785.pdf


I was hoping PF would have run it to establish a possible correlation based on an inappropriate sample size and biased data. :cool: 🆒
My case is similar to somewhere in the middle of those two as I have a 30/70 coolant to water mix with a bottle of the Redline wetter product.

Yes, he'd need a water-cooled engine test sled which I doubt he has, he always uses small air-cooled engines for the tests he does. So he improvised his heat exchanger setup to try to show the same thing - an increase in cooling.

Whatever, it's all just marketing I think anyway, clearly Amsoil and Redline etc. were just trying to sell morons like me a product. I'll go back to 50:50 G12Evo. Sigh.
 
Never had my coolant temp gauge move this event. Cooler ambients with highs in the 60s keeps my car somewhat in the happy zone. Seems the dummy temp gauge will move from its vertical position once you hit 235 deg based on prior logging. Oil was 265-275 most of the weekend which is pretty normal for this car but not pushing 280 which seems to push the coolant over its capacity in my experience. TMI Racing, the on-site shop at VIR, had the VP Frosty and a few different wetter products.

 
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Agreed...didn't get that. Maybe because the lubricity could be somehow correlated with claims of maintaining lubrication of the water pump?

Seems relevant for coolant additives to me.

Seems relevant for coolant additives to me.
Agreed. While the ratio isn’t huge, one would at least want to know that a wetter product doesn’t change the pH buffering adversely.

I've been running both the VP and Redline products for several years and note nothing like that.
I saw it over 20 years ago, on my 83 Mercedes. Brown spots. Had me concerned that my atf cooler was seeping into the coolant. It was the WW.
 
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