Redline TBNs??

dailydriver · Mar 16, 2006

Does anyone know (or know where I can find) the TBNs for Redline 5w30 & 5W-40? I cannot find this spec on their website. Plus, is the Redline 5W-40 too visous for my application,(stock internal 2000 LS1, daily driven VERY HARD, 90K miles, spring/summer change). I know some on here suggest the Amsoil 5W-40, but the Redline has a much better HTHS, as well as lower volatility #s. That being said, is 15.1 vs. 13.7 hot viscosity too thick?? Please, all of the LSx experts on here come in, I know ultimately it's opinions, but I want them!!

[ March 16, 2006, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: dailydriver ]

boxcartommie22 · Mar 16, 2006

tbn= 7

dailydriver · Mar 16, 2006

Is that for both, or which?

Al · Mar 16, 2006

tbn is really just a number. An oil with a higher tbn may not hold its tbn as well as one with a lower tbn. The whole additive package determines how quickly the tbn drops.

SSDude · Mar 16, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by dailydriver:
Plus, is the Redline 5W-40 too visous for my application,(stock internal 2000 LS1, daily driven VERY HARD, 90K miles, spring/summer change).

Redline is just the right oil for your application it is one of the best oils for the LS engine faimily.

boxcartommie22 · Mar 16, 2006

tbn is 7 for both....i got this from dave when i called twice to double check...and i agree with ssdude redline is the very best oil..

TomJones76 · Mar 16, 2006

For drains under 7500 or so, TBN = 7 in a conventional oil would be more than adequate.
Above 10K, not so sure, but it would hold up a healthy percentage of the time. Depends on how far above 10K.
Now as to a weird (really, I think Redline is the most unique oil on the market) oil with TBN = 7, I got NO WAY of telling.

Not the Autorx Frank · Mar 16, 2006

Remember some oils are better than others at low tbn's after use redline is ok all the way to zero.....(afaik) other factors need to be looked at. this is why oil analisys is the hot ticket with a good interp by terry d....

I go 10k on RL all the time........

LarryL · Mar 16, 2006

If you want to jack up the TBN, try the OilExtreme oil additive. About 4 ounces will give your oil analysis lab guy a big surprise.

dailydriver · Mar 16, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by SSDude:

quote:

Originally posted by dailydriver:
Plus, is the Redline 5W-40 too visous for my application,(stock internal 2000 LS1, daily driven VERY HARD, 90K miles, spring/summer change).

Click to expand...

Redline is just the right oil for your application it is one of the best oils for the LS engine faimily.

OK, but which one for SUMMER use, 5w30 or 5W-40. This WILL NOT be in the crankcase for more than 6K miles, so don't worry.

dailydriver · Mar 16, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by LarryL:
If you want to jack up the TBN, try the OilExtreme oil additive. About 4 ounces will give your oil analysis lab guy a big surprise.

So is the general consensus around here that this stuff is NOT SNAKE OIL, or are you alone in your recommendation?? Anyone have any harm to report on this, or is a worst case scenario just wasted $$?

slider · Mar 17, 2006

Originally posted by TomJones76:

>I do not believe we have ever had anyone use that >additive in their oil and then report back on it.
>We have had "theoretical" discussions on it, that >is all.

I've tried it, and it does jack up TBN, even if if used very modestly. (read: well below recomended dosage) I think the recomended dosages are too high and can result in TBN's in the 20 range. Too much alkalinity can damage metal as much as high acids.

>In theory you could use this stuff to keep your >oil's TBN propped up from now until doomsday, >adding a carefully metered amount in every 3000 >miles or so. I would worry about my OTHER >additives depleting if I tried doing that.. my >ZDDP, Calcium, etc.

OE is a concentrated calcium carbonate additive, so it maintains calcium. Other additives, of couse could and will deplete. Additive balance is important.

>TBN alone doesn't mean your oil is ready for continued use.

Agreed. The TBN can be just fine, but oxidation, dirt, insolubles or viscosity can be through the roof. One needs to look at the whole picture, not just one data point. High TBN doesn't mean that the oil is lubricating.

427Z06 · Mar 17, 2006

I'd start with the Redline 5w30 and see what your oil pressure readings are like. If they're close to spec, you're probably good to go. If the oil pressure is too low to meet specs, try the 5w40. Keep in mind, that oil pressure higher than specs isn't necessarily a better situation.

You might also consider German Castrol 0w30, many LS-x owners are fans. Amsoil is good too, get Pablo to help you with options.

bruce381 · Mar 17, 2006

"I do not believe we have ever had anyone use that additive in their oil and then report back on it."

Actually if this is a over based calcium sulfonate as I think it is most everyone has used it since that system is used commonly to juice the TBN in HDEO or even PCMO.

bruce

TomJones76 · Mar 17, 2006

We have no general consesnus on OilXtreme.
Most of us don't even know what it is.
I think we have less than 3 or 4 used oil analysis on OilXtreme's motor oil product.
The only experience we had with OilXtreme's motor oil product via used oil analysis was very positive. Its basic properties managed to restrict damage from a coolant leak. Cool.
I believe Terry spoke about their motor oil product and had somewhat complimentary things to say about it. He's not afraid to say something's snake oil, so that is at least a mild endorsement. You'd be best off reading his comments yourself, along with that thread.
All of my above comments refer to the OilXtreme motor oil.
I do not believe we have ever had anyone use that additive in their oil and then report back on it.
We have had "theoretical" discussions on it, that is all.
In theory you could use this stuff to keep your oil's TBN propped up from now until doomsday, adding a carefully metered amount in every 3000 miles or so. I would worry about my OTHER additives depleting if I tried doing that.. my ZDDP, Calcium, etc.
TBN alone doesn't mean your oil is ready for continued use.
I'd like to try the stuff, actually, be NEAT to experiment with, but I'm already on a Lube Control regimen that I'm using to satisfy my need to experiment.... I'd have to run the OilX in the wife's car, and I can't risk aggravating its existing oil leaks. Her Neon is too cheap now to bother repairing needlessly.
I should add that the additive is very powerful.
The worst case scenario, in theory, is worse than wasted money on the additive. My next sentence may be controversial, but some would agree with me. Overuse could potentially cause catalytic converter damage and a little excess engine wear due to excessive TBN.

TomJones76 · Mar 17, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by bruce381:
"I do not believe we have ever had anyone use that additive in their oil and then report back on it."

Actually if this is a over based calcium sulfonate as I think it is most everyone has used it since that system is used commonly to juice the TBN in HDEO or even PCMO.

bruce

Good point.
I specifically meant the OilXtreme branded product. I know it does use an over based calcium formulation. I just don't know that it doesn't have something else in there with it.

TomJones76 · Mar 17, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by slider:

Agreed. The TBN can be just fine, but oxidation, dirt, insolubles or viscosity can be through the roof. One needs to look at the whole picture, not just one data point. High TBN doesn't mean that the oil is lubricating.

To me, that seems the riskiest part of doping your oil with OilXtreme.
Let's say I have an engine that will never hit the "wear metal" limit for oil condemnation. I do, actually.. the Ford Duratec has nice low numbers.
Let's also say the oil stays roughly in grade. Not a bad bet... lots of oils stay stable in seriously harsh conditions.
I can't really monitor most additives in my oil with the kind of analysis I can afford. Zinc probably means I had ZDDP at one point, but even if the ZDDP breaks down to its separate elements and loses effectiveness, that won't neccessarily cause the Zinc reading to down.
I like TBN as a "leading indicator" of impending additive wear-out. Don't know if that's rational.

C.O. Jones · Mar 17, 2006

Check the VOA threads. It has Redline and you can see the entire add pac, not just the TBN. By the way, its very good, tons of moly,phosphorus and zinc.

dailydriver · Mar 19, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by 427Z06:
I'd start with the Redline 5w30 and see what your oil pressure readings are like. If they're close to spec, you're probably good to go. If the oil pressure is too low to meet specs, try the 5w40. Keep in mind, that oil pressure higher than specs isn't necessarily a better situation.

You might also consider German Castrol 0w30, many LS-x owners are fans. Amsoil is good too, get Pablo to help you with options.

Thanks, 427. GC is non-existent on the shelves in my area, and if I must order something it's gonna be Amsoil Euro (which I already have) or one of the Redlines (unless someone can prove to me that GC is substantially better than they are for an LSx).

Redline TBNs??

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