I thought I had read somewhere on this site that the ester has acid neutralizing properties and so the ester based oil does not need as high of a TBN as a dino or PAO.
Redline Oil
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Primus,
Please some more details on when the motor mag test was done.
Motul has changed their formulation on the 300v of recent times. I think it also has moly which was absent before.
I would try Redline, but at 2x the price of Motul 300v (which is expensive enough) it simply a matter of economics.
I am running the 300v 5w-30 in several cars.
BTW. I think one of the enhancements with the new Motul 300v was reduced corrosion.
Please some more details on when the motor mag test was done.
Motul has changed their formulation on the 300v of recent times. I think it also has moly which was absent before.
I would try Redline, but at 2x the price of Motul 300v (which is expensive enough) it simply a matter of economics.
I am running the 300v 5w-30 in several cars.
BTW. I think one of the enhancements with the new Motul 300v was reduced corrosion.
Redline being a ester base WILL clean engine gunk and will show higher metals due to cleaning effect this may take a few changes to settle down.
UOA's are great but to be valid they must be done over time to develope a TREND.
Redline uses the most advanced DI pakage around and is not a home brewed blend.
I think it is a great oil
Bruce
UOA's are great but to be valid they must be done over time to develope a TREND.
Redline uses the most advanced DI pakage around and is not a home brewed blend.
I think it is a great oil
Bruce
Yeah I would say so but remember lab spectro tests will vary day to day week to week so do not have a melt down if iron is 8 ppm this time and 15 next time I have had oil samples shot again in a few minutes same sample same machine time and they can vary a few percent.
Bruce
Bruce
check that, an unbroken in engine will show high wear rates no matter what oil is used till things break in. again test UOA not once but a few times.
Bruce
Bruce
I have been using REDLINE exclusively in our family's vehicles now for two years, (about 55,000 miles). As reported, the first one or two OCIs show darkened oil ("cleaning", as ascribed) and then the oil darkens but very little in 8,000 mile-plus OCI.
I have a hard time understanding the reluctance to buy the best-quality oil. Oil is cheap compared to the cost of an engine -- I am hardly alone in asserting this around here -- and the degradation of a motor over 150,000 miles of use would be, I would think, more than enough incentive to run the best oil whether RL or another (the better AMSOIL for example). And the only way to find out what is best is through analysis over time. I would further add that consulting an oil analyst first is an excellent step.
True, some motors may not "like" it. But a single UOA is not proof, especially not someone elses vehicle.
I chose RL because I wanted to run an 8-10m OCI without any sweat. Priority was that the motor run as good at 150m as it did at 30m. We totalled our JEEP at 95m, and I have no reason to believe that the engine was wearing in any undue manner, in fact, after drving three others of the same year, all from owners in this state (2 of 3 in metro area) ours was so much better that to compare any aspect of engine condition was souring. Even though the other vehicles had but 2/3's the miles . . . .
As I have posted elsewhere, I am sorry not to have UOA'd the JEEP in the approximately 50m miles it ran on RL (along with LC20 and FP60). Annual Molasoak, a couple of dealer FI cleanings.
The vehicle was as new, and deterioration was limited to light cosmetics. I doubt that there are few -- if any -- dead stock XJ's of its vintage able to match its efficency be it power or fuel use.
IMHO, RL was an essential part of the equation.
The other vehicle is the RAM now on its first run of RL after an LC20'd original OCI for about 8m, a Molasoak, ARX treat and FP60 since purchase. At 100m it runs much better than when purchased with 86m (previous local owner had a long daily highway commute averaging 22m annually). As expected, RL is darkening as the miles accumulate.
LC20 was added: 6 ozs initial fill, and 3 ozs every 750 (engine, V8-318 has leaking intake gasket plenum, a common problem). No oil has been consumed, MUCH different than the unkown dino on purchased OCI (probably 1.5 quarts in 8m).
LC20 and ARX have cleaned up the engine, and now RL is taking it down the home stretch.
Cars aren't about putting the least amount into them, they are about having the most vehicle left at (my arbitrary, but matches use) 150,000 miles.
Or, 200,000.
I have a hard time understanding the reluctance to buy the best-quality oil. Oil is cheap compared to the cost of an engine -- I am hardly alone in asserting this around here -- and the degradation of a motor over 150,000 miles of use would be, I would think, more than enough incentive to run the best oil whether RL or another (the better AMSOIL for example). And the only way to find out what is best is through analysis over time. I would further add that consulting an oil analyst first is an excellent step.
True, some motors may not "like" it. But a single UOA is not proof, especially not someone elses vehicle.
I chose RL because I wanted to run an 8-10m OCI without any sweat. Priority was that the motor run as good at 150m as it did at 30m. We totalled our JEEP at 95m, and I have no reason to believe that the engine was wearing in any undue manner, in fact, after drving three others of the same year, all from owners in this state (2 of 3 in metro area) ours was so much better that to compare any aspect of engine condition was souring. Even though the other vehicles had but 2/3's the miles . . . .
As I have posted elsewhere, I am sorry not to have UOA'd the JEEP in the approximately 50m miles it ran on RL (along with LC20 and FP60). Annual Molasoak, a couple of dealer FI cleanings.
The vehicle was as new, and deterioration was limited to light cosmetics. I doubt that there are few -- if any -- dead stock XJ's of its vintage able to match its efficency be it power or fuel use.
IMHO, RL was an essential part of the equation.
The other vehicle is the RAM now on its first run of RL after an LC20'd original OCI for about 8m, a Molasoak, ARX treat and FP60 since purchase. At 100m it runs much better than when purchased with 86m (previous local owner had a long daily highway commute averaging 22m annually). As expected, RL is darkening as the miles accumulate.
LC20 was added: 6 ozs initial fill, and 3 ozs every 750 (engine, V8-318 has leaking intake gasket plenum, a common problem). No oil has been consumed, MUCH different than the unkown dino on purchased OCI (probably 1.5 quarts in 8m).
LC20 and ARX have cleaned up the engine, and now RL is taking it down the home stretch.
Cars aren't about putting the least amount into them, they are about having the most vehicle left at (my arbitrary, but matches use) 150,000 miles.
Or, 200,000.
If there are those that are curious about RL and a Honda here is a UOA from Blackstone at the 375k oil change with 6,105 miles on this sample, report date 3/23/05
Alum 3
Chrom 1
Iron 8
Copper 7
Lead 6
Tin 1
Moly 415
Nickel 0
Man 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Potassium 10
Boron 29
Silicon 7
Calcium 2423
Magnesium 10
Phosphorus 1002
Zink 1016
Barium 0
SUS vis @ 210F 97.6 (exp range 82-95)
Flash 425 (exp > 385)
Fuel Antifreeze 0.0
Water 0.0
Insolubles 0.4
TBN 4.5
This 84 Civic head has never been off and 90% of it's life has been RL. It looks like RL does work with at least this Honda. The inside of the valve cover looks like the engine was assembled yesterday. This car spent most of it's life on long commutes in very hot weather with the A/C on, in heavy traffic in Southern California. Now it's a back up car. It's worth nothing because of it's mileage, but is a very good car, so, I'll keep it and drive it every now and then.
Alum 3
Chrom 1
Iron 8
Copper 7
Lead 6
Tin 1
Moly 415
Nickel 0
Man 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Potassium 10
Boron 29
Silicon 7
Calcium 2423
Magnesium 10
Phosphorus 1002
Zink 1016
Barium 0
SUS vis @ 210F 97.6 (exp range 82-95)
Flash 425 (exp > 385)
Fuel Antifreeze 0.0
Water 0.0
Insolubles 0.4
TBN 4.5
This 84 Civic head has never been off and 90% of it's life has been RL. It looks like RL does work with at least this Honda. The inside of the valve cover looks like the engine was assembled yesterday. This car spent most of it's life on long commutes in very hot weather with the A/C on, in heavy traffic in Southern California. Now it's a back up car. It's worth nothing because of it's mileage, but is a very good car, so, I'll keep it and drive it every now and then.
It is simple case of economics. The price differential does not yield a proportional benefit. At $7-9 USD a quart is it 2 times better than M1? Most likely not.
Not everyone is motivated to make cars last 500k miles or get "maximums protection" at any cost.
A technical arguement can be made to use RL.
A economic arguement can be made to not.
Mobil 1 is becoming the Oil of the Month Club. Good products, all of them, whatever they are. If you want to make economic sense out of their products do you just pick the cheapest one, after all they are all Mobil oil, I think, synthetic, blend, dyno, how much of what, who knows, who cares, read the label. Economic sense is no fun when it's your own car, don't need drive clean, startup, high miles, hard driving, suv oil. It's fun to be an oil nerd. When you're driving down the road, do you ever worry about timing your next oil change so you end up in your driveway right on the money? Oops, missed it by 58 miles, or darn, I'll do better next time, honest! I think RL is just better than Mobil 1 and I'll willing to pay $7.80 a quart and then change it myself. But here's my economic recovery plan. I take some of the used RL and put it in the lawn mower and the tiller and the chipper. The rest goes in a 78 Toyota Pickup. I don't waste anything. And it's fun to be a nerd, honest. Oh, does anyone need some used RL, driving carefully, always garaged and never abused.....free.
'84 impala, 220K miles, approaching rust bucket stage, 3-5K dino changes, burns no noticable oil. I am handing the keys to a woman and she is handing me 10 $20 bills. I should have used RL because.......
Thomas
2003 Echo, hi RPM, hi output (per liter), insolubles engine, purchased new, 30K miles/year, desiring extended OCI, thickened or sheared other oils. I am using Redline because....
"Does an engine with 375K have any wear metals left to end up in the oil?"
I've looked inside with a boroscope and it looks like new. Compression is right on new car spec and dead even. I think this is what you can get with any good synthetic oil. This engine has passed Calif smog every time. Only smog part replaced was the cat, along with a muffler, this past year. The cat and exhaust system were fine as long as I was piling the miles on, but being parked a lot now, and being driven about once a week did them in.
The transmission has also been helped by synthetic. I have had Mobil 1 5w-30 in the 5-speed transmission since new and it's been as smooth and easy shifting as new all its life.
I've looked inside with a boroscope and it looks like new. Compression is right on new car spec and dead even. I think this is what you can get with any good synthetic oil. This engine has passed Calif smog every time. Only smog part replaced was the cat, along with a muffler, this past year. The cat and exhaust system were fine as long as I was piling the miles on, but being parked a lot now, and being driven about once a week did them in.
The transmission has also been helped by synthetic. I have had Mobil 1 5w-30 in the 5-speed transmission since new and it's been as smooth and easy shifting as new all its life.
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